I purchased a 1968 GT/CS in Arizona and won auction. Wire transfered the money before the 72 hour deadline, Informed seller .Seller re listed car for 3 days and sold it for more money and promised to return my money once he got it. He received it at his bank on December 14 2008. Confirmed by seller and promised to return the money as soon as it got to his bank. Then came excuses like his wife got into a car accident and could not go to bank since she was the only one authorized. After a lot of promises he finally told me on January 9 2009 that he will send me the money at the latest January 13 2009. I have been calling him since that date and all phone messages have been un answered and also the e mails. This is what I have done:

Complain to the resolution center at e bay.

Filed an IC3 (iNTERNET CRIME)

Reported by phone to the Phoenix police dpt.

Just closed case at e bay and refered it to the Safety and Trust team.

Note: Since I am in Puerto Rico I am not covered by E bay protection program.


Any help or advice from someone in the area is WELCOME!!

Jon Hanna the administrator of this site knows about this case since he lives there and has been trying to help me.


When seller re listed item I advised e bay that I paid for the item and I believe that they should have stopped that auction until my matter was resolved. They did not do it.Kept telling to communicate with seller.

I have sellers phone number,name e mail and mailing address.

Thanks for any help anyone can provide!!

Luis,
I can't believe this world! I surely wish you luck in recouping your $$$. Was this the 'T' code C/S?

Neil

Luis,
I can't believe this world! I surely wish you luck in recouping your $$$. Was this the 'T' code C/S?

Neil

Yes it was Neill!! Thanks for the good wishes!!

Find out if the "buyer" of the car 3 days later had the same problem as you (if his/her ebay ID was listed in the second auction).

I had a similar experience online where I bought some rims and tires. It turns out 3 other people had "bought" the same rims and tires from the guy. We all got the "I shipped them" and "they were stolen" and "why are you bothering me" type of responses. I also filed an internet crime report, but only got my money back because I used paypal. Paypal gave me money money back, but not from the bad seller.

The seller got away with ripping off 3 people for about $2200.

I wish I had good news for you, but these things are tough to enforce.

Good luck.

Find out if the "buyer" of the car 3 days later had the same problem as you (if his/her ebay ID was listed in the second auction).

I had a similar experience online where I bought some rims and tires. It turns out 3 other people had "bought" the same rims and tires from the guy. We all got the "I shipped them" and "they were stolen" and "why are you bothering me" type of responses. I also filed an internet crime report, but only got my money back because I used paypal. Paypal gave me money money back, but not from the bad seller.

The seller got away with ripping off 3 people for about $2200.

I wish I had good news for you, but these things are tough to enforce.

Good luck.

Thanks njmop: Apparently the other sale went well and seller had good feedback. I filed the IC3 report but the problem is that I dont know if the case is being investigated since they do not provide that service. The IC3 only studies the case and then refers it to the proper agencies and they are the ones that have the power to investigate.

Lets see what happens..... Thanks for feedback!!

Do you have the town where this guy lives? If so you can contact that local police. If he (or she) is in the Phoenix area, that is probably Maricopa county, where Sheriff Joe operates. He is a no BS guy, ya might want to contact the Maricopa county sheriff.

If you have a phone #, give me the area code and the first three digits of the phone # (called the NPA - NXX) & I can tell you what TELCO office that phone originates from.

Dave

I'm really sorry to hear about this.

No fault of your own, but I'd think that in these desperate economic times, and with thousands of jobs lost, people are doing this kind of thing.

Overall, I think people should be very leery of doing business like this on line, etc.

A flight out there, and buying it in person (might have been) would be a better plan for others out there considering buying any kind of collector car.

Just my two bits--again my sympathy and support to you.

Paul.

Hey "Classics" thanks for sharing this post and educating us on malicious intent of some sellers. Its great to see the forum helping another member with possible avenues on getting your money back. Im sure this was very distressful being that far away.

I think you followed prudent guidelines in contacting eBay but their conflict of interest in apparent (even if you search the web). I was pretty pissed off after reading this post I called my friend at eBay and bitched her out for working there. Sorry I couldnt help directly. :mad:

In any case good luck and Ill be watching for your money to be returned!

Hey "Classics" thanks for sharing this post and educating us on malicious intent of some sellers. Its great to see the forum helping another member with possible avenues on getting your money back. Im sure this was very distressful being that far away.

I think you followed prudent guidelines in contacting eBay but their conflict of interest in apparent (even if you search the web). I was pretty pissed off after reading this post I called my friend at eBay and bitched her out for working there. Sorry I couldnt help directly. :mad:

In any case good luck and Ill be watching for your money to be returned!

UPDATE: I found out that the seller that auctioned car on e bay its not his. The seller that advertised it on craigslist is still the owner of the car and has the car and title. The car is still in Phoenix.He may have scammed me and another buyer on e bay since he re-listed car and sold it. Thanks all for the good wishes!!!

Keep us posted on how this turns out. Maybe a good lesson for all of us to learn from. I hope the best for you and hope everything works out.

Paul

I hate to ask what the feedback was on this E-Bay seller?

Rob

I hate to ask what the feedback was on this E-Bay seller?

Rob

Feedback on seller was 100%positive,I checked that out

Classicsguy,

Is the problem solved yet? I live in Phoenix and if I can help in anyway let me know. Is this the 6 cyl white car with black stripes? If so I talked with the owner when the car was listed here locally.

Rob

Classicsguy,

Is the problem solved yet? I live in Phoenix and if I can help in anyway let me know. Is this the 6 cyl white car with black stripes? If so I talked with the owner when the car was listed here locally.

Rob

Thanks for offering help. No the problem still is not solved. Yes it was the White car with the black stripes. Owner that listed on Craigslist is named Chuck and still has car. Supposedly his "business partner" asked him to let him take pictures to put in e bay and he did. He listed it on e bay and i won the auction sent wire transfer and never delivered the car nor has he returned the money. Any help with law enforcement or maybe a lawyer can be helpful. Any help or advice is welcome!! Thanks again!!

This whole situation puts a knot in my stomach and I really hope classicsguy gets his money back in the end. :mad:

It's a good reminder to us all about the dangers of buying cars that aren't local. The frustrating part is that classicsguy thought he was doing things correctly. He did buy it sight unseen, but he contacted a local member (me) to be his eyes and evaluate the car for him. I went to see the car twice, took tons of photos w/ captions documenting the car, took video and test drove it. I met the seller and shook his hand and BS'ed about Mustangs with him. Classicsguy knew exactly what he was getting with the car.

The problem occurred with the actual payment. The person selling the car on eBay was not the person I met and turned out not to even be in possession of the car or title. In retrospect classicsguy should have either flown here and physically handed over the money or used a brokerage service, which is a 3rd party company that holds the money until the vehicle has been transferred. Although there are plenty of scam brokerage services out there as well.

Anyway, I certainly don't post to rub salt in the wound. I only post in hopes that other members can learn from classicguy's misfortune.

Jon, could the guy you shook hands with be used as either a witness (or accomplice) in this matter for possible prosecution (if you know what I mean)? This whole thing is beyond "fishy" and I don't see him as above board either. Who among us would show or sell a car for someone else and expect to walk away knowing it's a scam?? It seems to me that there is still plenty to work with here re; getting cg's money returned or getting someone tossed in jail! (unless the guy ran off to Mexico)

Yes, the original seller (the real seller) could be used as a witness. I told him last night he could expect to see the police at his door if this doesn't get resolved quickly.

This whole thing is beyond "fishy" and I don't see him as above board either. Who among us would show or sell a car for someone else and expect to walk away knowing it's a scam??
You may be correct that he's not above board, but just to keep it straight, he (the real seller) didn't show or sell the car for someone else. The eBay seller is who did that and I think it's very clear that he's not above board.

In my opinion there are two things that could help speed the process of getting the money back.

1. An police officer in uniform showing up at the eBay seller's front door.
2. A nasty letter from a lawyer threatening legal action and civil lawsuit.

Not sure if there are any criminal attorneys as members here, but thought if so they may be able to give some advise or write a quick letter.

I have recently heard that eBay is having a problem with "Shill" (non-existant) Auctions where a scammer lists an item for sale that they do not have. They create an auction page as you would with any item even posting pictures with a great description of the item. They may download pictures from the internet, or, in case of cars, actually go to see cars that are for sale and take pictures telling the seller he/she wants to "check with someone else and show them the pictures before making a decision". Then they take bids on the item just like it was a real auction and when the winning bidder sends payment, the buyer never receives the item and the unscupulous seller is never heard from again.

This just may be the case here. Good luck classicsguy and I really hope you get your $$$ back!!

...Excellent Jon, Thanks! Boy, I sure hope this has a happy ending for "classicsguy"!

Renee - Congrats on the new car again!! 'Can't wait to see it :-)

The scary thing about this scenario is that it seems to be Sooo simple to pull a scam on E-bay. Apparently E-bay has no means of authenticating legitimate auction items. Is there liability on E-bay's part? Luis said in his earlier post that E-bay told him he had no protection because he lives in PR That's B.S. Last I heard they're still part of the good'ole USA, and the fraud took place on & thru E-bay's website (a US company). Seems to me it's time for a fraud investigation (possibly involving E-bay) and criminal action against the low life in AZ.

Neil (REALLY P.O.'d) Hoppe

P.S.
I've bought 2 cars thru E-bay (a C/S & a '68 conv). I promise - there won't be another if E-bay doesn't make this right for Luis. Carve that in stone.
P.P.S.
Jon; I'd take the E-bay listings on the left hand column off the page. I would not affilliate with what I consider an unsafe business practice that doesn't protect their customers. And I for one, won't.

I am not a serious Ebay user, but I have been told that you have much greater protection if you make your payments via paypal and that your paypal account should be linked to your credit card, not your bank account.

Again, I am not very experienced here, but understand that paypal works like an escrow account in certain situations and that money will not be released to the seller until the buyer acknowledges receipt.

Also, by having your account linked to your credit card, you have the protection and services similar to any other credit card transaction.

I also think there are no guarantees with ebay, no matter how careful your are.

I am really sorry to hear about this and hope it is resolved in a positive manner.

Good luck
David

Classics Guy; It appears to me that these two individuals involved in this conspiracy have committed mail fraud;

Title 18, Part 1, Chapter 63, Section 1343. Whoever, having devised or intending to devise any scheme or artifice to defraud, or for obtaining money or property by means of false or fraudulent pretenses, representations, or promises, transmits or causes to be transmitted by means of wire, radio, or television communication in interstate or foreign commerce, any writings, signs, signals, pictures, or sounds for the purpose of executing such scheme or artifice, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than 20 years, or both. If the violation affects a financial institution, such person shall be fined not more than $1,000,000 or imprisoned not more than 30 years, or both.

Instead of waiting for The Internet Crime Complaint Center (IC3) to get in touch with you, I would call the Phoenix field office of the FBI located at; 201 E. Indianola, Phoenix, AZ 85012 (602) 279-5511. The Commonwealth of Puerto Rico, and the Virgin Islands are covered by the FBI Field Office at San Juan. The address is; Federal Office Building, 150 Carlos Chardon Ave., Suite 526, Hato Rey, PR 00918 (787) 754-6000.

Even though you contacted the Phoenix Police Dept.already you want the Phoenix PD report number for reference for other agencies that may get involved. I would also contact the District Attorneys Office there and explain the situation to them. They may have their own investigators look into this crime. Depending on your financial situation I would hire a private investigator, preferably a retired law enforcement officer and start to prepare my civil case against these crooks in case all else fails in the criminal arena.

Best of Luck

CJ

Thanks CJ and Neill for the support. I am so glad that I belong to this forum!! We just stick around and watch each others back.

I called the FBI offices here in Puerto Rico and they said that I did the correct thing...filed the IC3 and that's an agency that its related to the FBI. The problem is taht THEY DO NOT GUARANTEE that your case is being investigated and they dont give you the status of any case. Today 14 days later that I filed the IC3 nobody has called me from the FBI or any agency and that is what bothers me.

I heard that the FBI wont investigate if the amount of dollars of claim is less than 50 or 100k.

I completely agree with a member that said that being in puerto rico is no excuse. We are a COMMONWEALTH of the US. Our official coin is the US DOLLAR we have American banks and international Banks. When you get into Puerto Rico from an outside country the first thing you read is: WELCOME TO THE UNITED STATES.

On Friday I will meet a lawyer friend of mine that knows about the case,he will steer me in right direction.
THE THING i WANT THE MOST IS THAT A POLICE OFFICER SHOWS UP AT THE DOOR OF SELLER TO ASK HIM SOME QUESTIONS.

I am Very stressed out with this situation....The main problem Is that I dont know if anything is being done to stop creeps like this from fooling with peoples hard earned money.

I will give updates as soon as i got some news. THANKS AGAIN TO ALL THE CAL SPEC FORUM for the support,help and advice!!!

JON: A VERY SPECIAL THANKS TO YOU!!!

ClassicsGuy; You may want to hire a private investigator, like I said one that is retired from law enforcement. For starters they do not have to abide by the law when talking to suspects. They will do a lot of the investigative foot work, build your case and turn it over to the local enforcement agency. At the very least I would give them a call.

Good Luck

CJ

ClassicsGuy; You may want to hire a private investigator, like I said one that is retired from law enforcement. For starters they do not have to abide by the law when talking to suspects. They will do a lot of the investigative foot work, build your case and turn it over to the local enforcement agency. At the very least I would give them a call.

Good Luck

CJ

Thanks CJ!! I will seriously consider it. Its a good idea. I guess it should be a local in Arizona.

Hi All,

Another thought would be to hire a collection agency to go after this guy.

Perhaps the Phoenix yellow pages would have some listed.

Dave

Update; Seller who had the e bay account in auction contacted me end of last week. She said that her husband used her account without knowing it and left her. She was involved in car accident and that she wants to make a payment plan with me. My lawyer is making a legal document after we set the terms of payment plan. I will keep posting updates and thanks all again for the support and advice!!

Update; Seller who had the e bay account in auction contacted me end of last week. She said that her husband used her account without knowing it and left her. She was involved in car accident and that she wants to make a payment plan with me. My lawyer is making a legal document after we set the terms of payment plan. I will keep posting updates and thanks all again for the support and advice!!

With only what I'm reading here, my gut feeling is that this payment thing stinks.

Using her EBAY account and then he leaves her, then she was in an accident sounds like a bad 1960's episode of Dragnet!

If they weren't up front with you to begin with, how could you expect to receive payments in a timely manner? How 'bout SHE gets a loan to pay you off in full, then she pays the loan off on her own?

The money you sent went somewhere, right? He ran off with it (supposedly)??

I think that the private eye, and/or a cop at the door still needs to be done.

I don't pretend to know all the details, but this sounds really fishy. If it were me, I wouldn't settle for payments.

Just my two bits.

Paul.

With only what I'm reading here, my gut feeling is that this payment thing stinks.

Using her EBAY account and then he leaves her, then she was in an accident sounds like a bad 1960's episode of Dragnet!

If they weren't up front with you to begin with, how could you expect to receive payments in a timely manner? How 'bout SHE gets a loan to pay you off in full, then she pays the loan off on her own?

The money you sent went somewhere, right? He ran off with it (supposedly)??

I think that the private eye, and/or a cop at the door still needs to be done.

I don't pretend to know all the details, but this sounds really fishy. If it were me, I wouldn't settle for payments.

Just my two bits.

Paul.

Paul: Its really fishy!! woman "says" she lost her home and work. Husband dissapeared,supposedly ran off with another woman. She says mother will lend her for partial payments. What I think it happened its maybe a law enforcement officer got to her and thats why she called me". As soon as i get something more concrete I'll keep posting..

When I won the auction: I only spoke to husband...2 days later after auction ended husband told me that wife got into a car accident and had to be operated.He took money from her account while she was in hospital. Thats HER story.....dont believe any of it.

...Where is the car now? Did the other buyer take delivery yet? Can a lawyer or police request a "stop" order of sorts from a judge until this is solved?

I agree that you shouldn't accept any payment plan from her (payments will likely stop after the first 1 or 2 with more hardship stories...) Please hang in there and demand full payment or the car! Their problems are not yours!! Treat this as the scam it is CG!

...Where is the car now? Did the other buyer take delivery yet? Can a lawyer or police request a "stop" order of sorts from a judge until this is solved?

I agree that you shouldn't accept any payment plan from her (payments will likely stop after the first 1 or 2 with more hardship stories...) Please hang in there and demand full payment or the car! Their problems are not yours!! Treat this as the scam it is CG!

The car never belonged to seller...the car belonged to a "friend" of her husband and he took the pictures. Jon Hanna saw the car when his friend placed on Craigslist. The car is still in Phoenix I told seller to buy the car from the owner and send me title...she does not want to do it.

Hey Classic...just catching up on your reality web show (had to make some popcorn), wow talk about twist and turns. So wanted to echo feedback from the forum about the payment plan...that is a definite dead end.

Couple years back I had some kid nail by Defender truck taking a turn. They promised they would pay via installment plans and kept draggin their heels and I had to take them to court to kick them into action. But that didnt end it...

Even via a payment plan that was court sanctioned they were late with payments and caused me stress...they could have actually bailed on the payment and then all you can do is take to collections. Mine was small claims so Im assuming your will be a full blown lawsuit.

Get money upfront and have them sort out a payment plan with their bank behind the scenes. Sounds kinda crazy that she is willing to pay you back and it was her husband fault and she just got out of hospital?

At least there is some communication...can Paypal or eBay based on this info forward any information on the auction etc in your best interests?

Update:
Also with communication send certified mail, no email\ phone communication, have everythign documented with content of discussion times etc. Good luck!

I am trying to get at least 50% upfront to try to minimize the amount of time that will take to complete payments. You are right Happy hour at least there is some communication. E bay wont do anything more and the worst thing about E bay is that they do not let you know whats is being done to the seller. If he has been reported to law enforcement I really don't know....

This is a longshot, but I have a few ideas..

1. Contact your Representative (P.R.)

http://pierluisi.house.gov/index.html

Tell him your story, and try to get Washington to make stronger internet laws against internet fraud in P.R..

2. The Puerto Rico Dept. of Consumer Affairs:

http://www.cpsc.gov/businfo/state/pr.html

Tell them your story, and see what they offer.

3. Local P.R. TV Station:

Find a local TV station that will run your story. You might find that one of those stations will do consumer fraud stories. Maybe a US cable news station will pick it up.

These are just a few ideas...

Good Luck!

Paul.

p.s. at one time there was a beautiful red GT/CS with a white vinyl top there in P.R. (around 1990)