What is the earliest known build date for a '68 GT/CS?

One of mine was built Jan 30 and I am curious to see how many were built before it.

Thanks!

-Curtis

December 21st is the earliest one I see in the '89 registry.

What one is the early one, the J code ? Marty

S120013 Date 21M

Remember that the registry doesn't require proof of it being a real CS to be included. I find it hard to believe a car built 2 months before the debut would be a true CS.

Steve

Remember that the registry doesn't require proof of it being a real CS to be included. I find it hard to believe a car built 2 months before the debut would be a true CS.

Steve

There a few others with December dates. Doesn't make sense to me either.

What one is the early one, the J code ? Marty

Yep, the J code is the only January car I have, the brittany blue one is Feb 15.

Despite the scheduled date of Jan 30th, the J code was actually built on Feb 8th according to Marti

My J code GT/CS, has a serialized date of 1/25/68, scheduled date of 2/5/68, and an actual build date of 2/6/68.

My VIN is 8R01J137614.

My car came with the recessed rear reflectors.

First day of GT/CS production was Jan 16, 1968. Casey

Thanks for the info!

Remember that the registry doesn't require proof of it being a real CS to be included. I find it hard to believe a car built 2 months before the debut would be a true CS.


Sure that all of those earlier attempts have or can be corrected and revised since we now have the Ford records. Would guess that some of the cars in the earlier registries will drop off the pages during the next printing

Arlie, please do me a HUGE “solid” and scan pages 29, 30, and 12 of PM’s first book.

On the scan of the first page of the registry that Arlie posted, the car belonging to Bruce Malmberg is my car. The next one down is Tom Shields car, which was later Janice Brulc’s car in our on-line registry. Both Marti’s are in the Marti thread on-line. Mine built on 2 January and the Tom Shield’s car built on 4 January. The first PM book on page 29 in paragraph 5 it speaks to cars on standby. And speaks to the delay in production surges that have ordered dates far from build dates. On page 30 there is a timeline of production and speaks to the 7 prototypes being built and even speaks on the top of the right side of the chart about “Nugget” gold specials to jump start sales in the Northwest.

Certainly history has become clearer with the Ford records owned by Marti. And the easiest thing is to say is “no Marti, no proof”, no GT/CS. And that may be the final litmus test. In one of Paul’s tirades at me he says he has a debut car in his registry. He only mentioned it that one time to chastise me in public on the SAAC site, so I doubt its truth.

The timeline and the complete section on page 12 of the first book deal with the lateness of the prototypes due to the late add of the California Special script on the quarters.

Does anyone who reads these pages doubt that there were 1968 Mustang Coupes, already down the line fully assembled, BUT NOT ordered as a GT/CS? Retrofitted with the option for the debut? I do. How long would it have taken to order, buck, build, assemble, deliver from San Jose to LA, and add the script? One month from January 16th? Maybe, but most points to cars already down the line with lots of options being retrofitted.

Does anyone really believe that the cars on the stage that night would have a Marti pedigree? IMO the debut cars would not be Marti pedigreed. On page 12 it even speaks to the final assembly being performed at ACSCO. To claim that the debut cars are assembled fakes due to a lack of Marti pedigree diminishes the fathers of the GT/CS cars! Couple this with the strike in the fall of 1967, and you have a whole bunch of cars stalled on the line or pulled off and staged. And a bunch of them languishing outside of Ford factories.

Other than a few in the “know” in Southern California, on 15 February 1968 these cars did not exist. IMO, there were no brochures in the dealer show room or a “block on the order form” to put a checkmark in it for a GT/CS option package until the day of the debut. And I bet there were all sorts of “plain jane” Mustangs coming down the line or staged for delivery with build dates earlier than 15 February.

Again, I would love to find some other cars on the early registry page that Arlie posted. I do not think for a minute that my car was at the debut on 15 February. But with an identical twin with the entire original fiberglass, it is a mystery in my mind.

By the way, my car will certainly be dropped from the new registry! So will its twin! No big deal to me!!! I have found a great family!

Let’s put an APB out for some of those early VIN’s! We may find a debut car.

Rob

Here is my Marti.
http://i174.photobucket.com/albums/w115/CougarCJ/OldYeller.jpg

Clearly shows it being a California Special. My car has an actual build date of Feb 6, 1968. However it was released on Monday Feb 19, 1968.

The first date of production as Casey said, was Feb 16, 1968, a Friday.

My car had to have been one of the earliest 'fill the pipeline' cars.

Sold May 19, 1968.
May 19th is my birthday.:cheesy:

Just noticed that many Marti reports are blank in the order recieved spot. Mine is not , but Scott's is. Went to the Marti thread and many are blank. Almost like there is no date on record for when it was ordered.

Hmmmmmm...

Rob

Sorry about page 30 being a little blurry.

Rob, I really think you are onto something with your car possibly being one of the debut cars.

If one looks at all the possible reasons why your car is the way it is the most logical solution is that it was a debut car. Let's look at the situation using "Occam's Razor", which more or less says that the most likely solution to a problem is the simplest solution. A dealer making your car makes no sense, it's way too complicated, and too expensive. A hobbyist making your car makes some sense but not much because every single GT/CS part is on the car. Therefore your car being built by Ford for the debut makes the most sense (at least to me), and satisfies Occam's razor.

I don't have the deluxe Marti, but the VIN on this early one I have is 8R01J131680. It indicates a scheduled for build date of Jan 30th and an actual build date of Feb 8.

Arlie,
One clue from the debut that I DO believe is there was no gold colored car on the stage with a black vinyl top. Going through what pictures were in PM's first book the ones you can see support this. I asked him earlier on, in friendlier times, this question and he supported this. I do not think my car was a debut car, but some sort of early build or maybe just a dealer build. Or one heck of a clone job done long long ago in a galaxy far away. The late 60's or early 70's!

Anyone interested, take a look at page 30 of the scans Arlie posted. Look at the car in the bottom right corner with Lee Gray on the stage. Line up the California and the Mustang script in your eyes. They are almost level to each other. Go out and look at you car. The California script is no where near level to your Mustang script on the trunk spoiler.

My car had the script in this higher location. The holes in the quarter are still there. Tim made a replication for me via photo shop.

http://i140.photobucket.com/albums/r36/valmaxi/Rob%20car%20stuff/Calrrdebutcar.jpg

Scott's car has recessed refelcters. Curtis, does your car have them?

Rob

Curtis,
Your early J code has a factory tach. The debut cars were "rumored" to have factory tachs and a very loaded option list.

The car does not have the script obviously, but have you tried to locate the holes from inside the trunk? Do you have any owner history on this car. Can you tell what color the vinyl top was? There were two cars on the stage at the debut that were blue with a white vinyl top.

All,
Does the tach show up on the deluxe report as an option, or only the elite report?

Rob

Deluxe and Elite.

Arlie,
Can you scan in page 14. It was the stage car painted in gulf stream aqua with a white vinyl top. J code.

Curtis,
Not saying what you may have, but do the comparison.

Rob

Scott,
Thanks. Went into Curtis's site. He has the option list posted.

This car has all the pedigree of being a debut car. Page 14 shows an exact clone of this car.

Curtis, it would be interesting to see the script holes from inside your trunk if you can find them in the undercoat. Page 14 shows the script abnormally high.

Curtis, by the way, as this goes forward brace yourself for a PM asault if it is......

Rob

Arlie,
Can you scan in page 14. It was the stage car painted in gulf stream aqua with a white vinyl top. J code.

Curtis,
Not saying what you may have, but do the comparison.

Rob

Here you go.

Thanks Arlie! Boy does the car that Curtis has resemble that debut car.

Rob

Rob, Regarding the debut, the text on that page reads "...as sales to dealers exceeded 1000 GT/CS cars .... One Thousand cars is all Lee Gray and his staff had on hand at the time and probably could have sold many more than that"...

So does that mean 1000 cars were already complete by Feb 15? ...and... If there was such a shortage, could some dealers have been guided to modify existing coupes (yours & the twin) to meet projected demand around that time?

Just spitballing w/ no proof, but kinda makes sense to me...

Tim,
All of the text on that page is kinda interesting. Disecting what PMN wrote years later.... If they had 1000 cars on hand, why would they need "prototypes". Other than the script needing to be put on? Interesting also is the the word "wholesale" orders in the text. These were dealer ordered cars not customer ordered. Not sure if that changes anything.

IMO there were parts waiting but there were not many completed cars. I bet you are correct and there was a flurry of building on the line. Why have completed cars sitting there not sold and build more? Just put the parts on and go. IMO there was alot of "catch up" done before cars came down the line customer ordered from a dealer as a GT/CS from inception. It all makes to much sense.

The debut of the GT/CS is so different that say the Mach I or a Boss. Those cars were designed, concieved, and announced form Ford themselves. The GT/CS was a midyear offering from a district.

It would be helpful if we could get a copy of a bunch of the Marti's for the early cars. Do side by side comparisons of the ordering info. Scott's is hugely early!!!

Rob

Just reviewed page 56 which Arlie posted earlier. Curtis's car is in the orginal registry owned by a Judy Gunter at the time 8R01J131680. It was found or submitted by Ernie Gonzales, or Judy. It lists a 19 January build date, and it was submitted as a later reflector not a recessed one. That is incorrect from the pictures. It has recessed reflectors. Curtis lists it as a 30 January build date.

Ah the fun....

Rob

Scott,
Thanks. Went into Curtis's site. He has the option list posted.

This car has all the pedigree of being a debut car. Page 14 shows an exact clone of this car.

Curtis, it would be interesting to see the script holes from inside your trunk if you can find them in the undercoat. Page 14 shows the script abnormally high.

Curtis, by the way, as this goes forward brace yourself for a PM asault if it is......

Rob

Rob, can you tell me more precisely what I'm looking for inside the trunk? Holes for the california special script being in a different place? Unfortunately I don't have a copy of Paul's book. I want one, my cars are pictured (including this one) throughout it, but I haven't found one to buy for less than $300.

Some pictures on on my site, I am planning on taking more pictures soon. The original top was White Vinyl, stripes were white.

Here is the owner history I have

1. Me (Curtis Kaffer)
2. Ernie Gonzales purchased on Feb 24 1988
3. Jude T Gunter (San Diego resident)

According to the GT/CS Survey that Ernie filled out (back in 1988) he is the 3rd owner and the previous owner had it for 18 years. I do not have the name of the original owner, unfortunately this car doesn't have the original warranty card (a few of my other cars do)

Rob, Regarding the debut, the text on that page reads "...as sales to dealers exceeded 1000 GT/CS cars .... One Thousand cars is all Lee Gray and his staff had on hand at the time and probably could have sold many more than that"...

So does that mean 1000 cars were already complete by Feb 15? ...and... If there was such a shortage, could some dealers have been guided to modify existing coupes (yours & the twin) to meet projected demand around that time?

Just spitballing w/ no proof, but kinda makes sense to me...

Since 4000 cars were built that would mean that over 25% (1000/4000) of the cars would have recessed reflectors. It's just a WAG on my part but I don't think even 10% have them so I don't see how 1000 cars could have been ready by that date.

Curtis,
You can see Judy's name in Arlies post earlier in the thread. To find the holes you got two choices. Go inside the trunk and look around on the inside of the quarter. There is usually a thick coat of sound deadener sprayed on the inside making it more fun. If you can find them you can poke them through to the outside.

Or you could sand the paint on the outside. Car looks like it needs a repaint anyway.

Below are the two pictures of my car. One with the script in the tradidional low position. The other is a photo shop rendition done by Tim from the dimensions of the hole location from inside my trunk. If you car more resembles the high position, I would bet it may be a debut car. And it may be the one on the stage!

FIND THOSE HOLES!

Rob

This is the traditional location

http://i140.photobucket.com/albums/r36/valmaxi/Rob%20car%20stuff/Calrrtraditional.jpg

This is IMO the debut location of the script.

http://i140.photobucket.com/albums/r36/valmaxi/Rob%20car%20stuff/Calrrdebutcar.jpg

Since 4000 cars were built that would mean that over 25% (1000/4000) of the cars would have recessed reflectors. It's just a WAG on my part but I don't think even 10% have them so I don't see how 1000 cars could have been ready by that date.

Can't argue with that logic!!!!

I am going to look now, The script isn't even installed, I will measure the holes that are there now and will look for any others. I think the holes there now I kind of high, I have other cars to compare with as well, will update tonight and will post more pictures.

Here is the relevant portion of the rear cover.

Arlie,
The white car in the center is so obvoiusly close to 6 inches above the recessed reflector. Way higher than the later traditional location.....

Never could get PMN to realize this.....

Rob

OK, I took a LOT of pictures. See the gallery here:

http://www.mustang.biz/Mustang.biz/Photo_Gallery/Pages/J_Code.html
(http://www.mustang.biz/Mustang.biz/Photo_Gallery/Pages/J_Code.html)
The script is higher than my other cars that have the chrome bezel reflector, but not 6". The other cars are 3.5", this one is closer to 4.25". The pictures that show this are in the gallery. I pulled emblems from another car and stuck them in for measurement. There is no evidence that a second set of holes exists.

The caption from page 14 exactly describes my car. I think I'm going to call Marti to see if they can run a report to find cars with the known debut car option list that were built on or before Feb 15. That would give me a better idea of the odds that mine is the one on stage. Has anyone done such a custom report? Will they do it? Any idea of cost?

Thanks for all the info, this is fun!

Edit to note that the "Special" script popped right in, but "California" wasn't a perfect fit. Not sure if that means anything. I have a LOT of emblems, I'm sure I have the original ones to this car somewhere.

Curtis,
To me that looks like the traditional location. The recess reflector and the chrome relector account for the difference.

I think Marti will be a dead end for any info on debut cars. But who knows!! This is fun!!

Rob