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The 390cid S code Engine

davidathans

Well-known member
Joined
Jul 25, 2004
Messages
703
Location
San Fernando Valley, California
Lately there has been lots of talk regarding the title subject, the 390 engine S code. Im wondering just how great is this motor? From the people i've talked to what i've heard is that the heads really didnt breathe well. Wasnt this motor rated at like 325 hp? is this correct? at what rpm? What was the torque figure? at what rpm? Does anyone know the valve sizes intake/exhaust? how about the intake runner volume? Anyone ever do a Chassis dyno of a stock 390 with a C6 and a 9 inch? how about a chassis dyno of a stock 390 with a 4 speed and a 9 inch? if so what numbers did it pull at what RPMS? How about a 390 with a few upgrades? How about the HP and torque figures of a 390 with aftermarket aluminum heads?

Isnt the 390 a FE series motor? Is the 390 considered a big block? Can a 427/428 crank be used for this block? i dont really know much info about the 390 in general...please inform me :)
thanks
David
 

Mosesatm

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 18, 2005
Messages
9,009
The 390 is an FE motor and it is interchangable with the 428 and some 427s. Many people used to put 428 cranks in 427s. That change would increase the engine to somewhere around 454 cubic inches.

The FE series is not the biggest block. The 429/460 series is larger but most people call the FE series engines "big blocks".

Don is our resident FE expert and should be able to fill you in on the real nitty gritty details.
 

jk89cat

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 10, 2005
Messages
213
Location
vernon hills, IL
fe imo, is the baddest big block ford ever built , not that a 429 or 460 are bad, but the feel ,power and sound of a fe is unmistakable, and some of the greatest street and race cars have these beasts under their hood . i have a 352 in my 64 galaxie ,and i love it , its just a shame the car is in pieces right now .
 
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davidathans

davidathans

Well-known member
Joined
Jul 25, 2004
Messages
703
Location
San Fernando Valley, California
What makes a FE motor a FE? what does FE even stand for? Why is the feel, power and sound of an FE motor different than a windsor motor? Dont just say because windsor small blocks are "small blocks" and 390 FE motor is a big block interchangable with the 428. My question is ..what is the difference in the engineering of the FE motor that makes it that much better of an engine?
 

jk89cat

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 10, 2005
Messages
213
Location
vernon hills, IL
the fe means ford -edsel , it actually predates the sbf , 58 ish is when it came out . the fe uses a y type blcok design , is a very durable ,long lastign engine. and with the head /cam/intake combinations made very good power /torque at low rpms for the different displacements that were available, the differnet cid , 332, 352, 361, 390, 391, 406 , 410 , 427, 428 , and i think one of the lincolns had a 430 . there is also 3 head variations, low, medium and high rise . most passenger cars, light trucks used the low rise and the more hoprsepower motors, 390 , 406, 427, 428 used the medium/ high rise depending on application . the durablity comes form the castign of the block, and the internal webbing . if you have never seen the inside of one, the main caps are flush with the bottom of the block, and on some of the hp versions you could have a 4 bolt main motor , i have never seen a cracked fe motor , but you her about it with sbf . i have had my galaxie since i was 14 and i have spent alot of time researching it and the engines over the years . anyone can correct me if i am off. i am just now gettign into the sbf , trying to learn what are quirks and problems and what to do with them and not do . i have more experince with the late small blocks and not the early, but what i cantell you, the small block is a higher reving mid range power motor , and depending on use the durabilty could or couldnot be there , justin
 

Sherryle

New member
Joined
Apr 19, 2004
Messages
1
Location
Perris, CA
I have a 390 in my California Special. All I can say is that it is quick. The first time I drove it. I squealed the tires all the way out of the driveway, this is without trying.
 

68gt390

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 22, 2004
Messages
2,021
Location
Columbus, Ohio
davidathans said:
Lately there has been lots of talk regarding the title subject, the 390 engine S code. Im wondering just how great is this motor? From the people i've talked to what i've heard is that the heads really didnt breathe well. Wasnt this motor rated at like 325 hp? is this correct? at what rpm? What was the torque figure? at what rpm? Does anyone know the valve sizes intake/exhaust? how about the intake runner volume? Anyone ever do a Chassis dyno of a stock 390 with a C6 and a 9 inch? how about a chassis dyno of a stock 390 with a 4 speed and a 9 inch? if so what numbers did it pull at what RPMS? How about a 390 with a few upgrades? How about the HP and torque figures of a 390 with aftermarket aluminum heads?

Isnt the 390 a FE series motor? Is the 390 considered a big block? Can a 427/428 crank be used for this block? i dont really know much info about the 390 in general...please inform me :)
thanks
David

David;
As far as heads not breathing well - the stock 390 heads were bad with the stock exhaust manifolds. That's why Ford redesigned them with the GT series motors to increase flow but, were still not the greatest in the world. That's why most folks opted for headers vs the stock GT exhaust manifolds. Valves were: Intake 2.02, Exhaust 1.55 for the GT series motor. As for HP and Torque: HP - 325 @ 4800 rpm, Torque - 427 ft lbs @ 3200 rpm. Keep in mind these ratings were conservative in the 60's for insurance purposes so I'm confident in saying they made more HP than they were actually rated at. As for a chasis dyno on a stock C6 or 4 speed I don't have numbers for that. Neither of my car's are stock and I've never had them dynoed. I've never felt the need just to prove numbers to someone. To me numbers are just that numbers. The car is only as effective as the driver. I've had friends of mine blow numbers at me and still get their ass kicked because they were left sitting at the line.

There were two series of big block motors developed by Ford. 1st: The Big Block FE series (1958-1964) which included the 332, 352, 361E, 390, 406, and 427, (1965-end of production) which included 352, 360, 390, 410, 427 and 428.
2nd: Big Block "385" Series (1968-current) which included the 429, 429 Boss and 460.

With all that said, there are many variations you can do with a 390 that will gain HP and torque. For instance, items from the 428 can be run in the 390 block (i.e., valves, crank and heads). You can also opt for an over bore which will also increase HP/Torque (example: 390 block bored .30 over with 428 crank = 410 cubic inches). Also as was stated by jk89cat the blocks were stronger than most based on their design and additional webbing material in the block. As for your question on the Windsor/Cleveland I can't answer that one. I have no experience with the 351 engines. To me having come from the old school 60's crowd it goes back to one saying we had, "there is no replacement for displacement". You can get good HP from any engine depending on what you do with it. Myself, I prefer to have the "Big Block". Even with today's engines putting up big HP numbers, they still secome to one thing, Block failure. I have friends that have put superchargers and turbo's on their cars and they are constantly having to pull them apart and rebuild after a number of runs. The only time I've had to rebuild my 390 is because of self inflicted stupidity, not the number of runs I've put on the motor. I have included a site you can check that can give you much more info if your interested. Just post your question there and trust me you will get an answer. Once I'm done building my 428CJ block and get the motor done I'll post some HP/Torque figures for those interested.

http://www.feandbbford.com/

Hopefully I've answered some of your questions.

Don :wink:
 

Herck

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 26, 2005
Messages
101
Location
vancouver b.c canadian eh"
Don what type of header are u using on your 428 fe your building.i just got my headers in i bought them from ebay they are old hooker headers 2 inch primarys into a 31/2 colectors full length type nice racing headers ill be bolting them up to edelbrock heads.
 

68gt390

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Joined
Feb 22, 2004
Messages
2,021
Location
Columbus, Ohio
I'll be using the same ones that are on my 390 now. Hooker Super Comp Ceramic coated full length that dump into a 3" collector that reduces it down to 2.5". That way I won't have to change any of my exhaust system that's on the car now. The only problem I had when I initially put them on the GT heads, I had to drill the extra holes to fit the bolt pattern. I'm also going with over sized valves in my CJ heads vs the stock CJ valves to help them breath a little better. I'm not sure if I'll port and polish the CJ heads or not. I'll decide that after I take them to the machine shop to be cleaned.

Don
 

jk89cat

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Joined
Mar 10, 2005
Messages
213
Location
vernon hills, IL
don , my 89 cat is sittign in my driveway right now , with a cracked 302 still totally unsure of what happened, but the balancer, front cover and the block were destroyed , no prior noises, the block cracked over the area where the 1# main cap is screwed into. i heard a bunch of noise , then bam, car stalls, thats it. this car has a 92 302 with 1.7 rr , cobra intake, headers cold air , custom trans and custom rearend with 3.55 so nothign spectacular , and has only been truley drag raced 3 times , the concesus is either the balancer went and being the car was in motion , the internal balance with no balancer broke the block, or i had a cap walk problem, either way , i get to start over
 

68gt390

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Joined
Feb 22, 2004
Messages
2,021
Location
Columbus, Ohio
jk89cat;
I'm sure you weren't to happy about that. :cry: Have you thought about what your going to replace it with? At least you've got some pretty good equipment you can salvage for your next build.

Don
 

68gt390

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Joined
Feb 22, 2004
Messages
2,021
Location
Columbus, Ohio
Very nice site Paul. That's some pretty hefty hardware they have listed there. As for roller rockers for street use - I'm putting Crane Cams Gold 1.76 roller rockers on my new engine. This will be my first test with them on an FE motor. I had them on my 91 LX 347 motor and had no problems with them. They are light weight and offer better oiling capabilities. I have noticed that on an FE when you use headers vs the cast iron exhaust manifolds you get a lot of rocker arm noise. This should help cut down on that.

Don
 
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jk89cat

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Joined
Mar 10, 2005
Messages
213
Location
vernon hills, IL
those rr are very nice, i think a certain galaxie needs a pair ! , don for now , my 5.0 plans, i have a 94 f150 roller cam engine that is going to be the base. i am still toying with which cam to get , depending on money , i might do some trick flow or motorsport heads . i am thinking of a lower girdle as well, and using all my prevoius perf parts. i cant make any full desicions before i get chance to rip both engines down. i have to finish the interior of the 92 tbird before i can get into the engine project. i have thought about a stroker kit too , justin
 

68gt390

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Joined
Feb 22, 2004
Messages
2,021
Location
Columbus, Ohio
jk89cat said:
those rr are very nice, i think a certain galaxie needs a pair ! , don for now , my 5.0 plans, i have a 94 f150 roller cam engine that is going to be the base. i am still toying with which cam to get , depending on money , i might do some trick flow or motorsport heads . i am thinking of a lower girdle as well, and using all my prevoius perf parts. i cant make any full desicions before i get chance to rip both engines down. i have to finish the interior of the 92 tbird before i can get into the engine project. i have thought about a stroker kit too , justin

A 347 stroker kit is pretty nice for the 5.0. I know the one I had in my 91 LX was pretty healthy for a small block. :grin:

Don
 

joedls

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Joined
Mar 12, 2005
Messages
1,980
Location
Lake Forest, CA
68gt390 said:
A 347 stroker kit is pretty nice for the 5.0. I know the one I had in my 91 LX was pretty healthy for a small block. :grin:

Don

I sure like mine:grin: :grin: :grin:
 
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