1968 Head Casting Numbers

My mechanic has located the culprit that made my car unable to come home to Ohio under its own power...a broken valve spring that was causing bent pushrods. Also, a few carburetor issues. I was hoping to see if I still have the original heads, so I wrote down the numbers I could see. Apparently these are the casting dates. If I am reading them correctly, they were manufactured in November of 1966...could they be that old and put on a car manufactured in April of 1968??

gofastguy said:

Apparently these are the casting dates. If I am reading them correctly, they were manufactured in November of 1966...could they be that old and put on a car manufactured in April of 1968??

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Nope, engine casting dates should be 1-3 months prior to build date. I have a J-code engine with casting dates the same as the scheduled build date (although the car was assembled two weeks later).

Danny

That's kind of what I was afraid of. Now I have to wonder what the heck kind of heads I have. I assume there a lot of different kinds, and I am guessing that the Mustang 390 ones are at the top of the food chain. I knew the block wasn't original, but I kind of hoped the rest of the engine might be...

Here's a thread about FE heads.

http://www.californiaspecial.com/forums/showthread.php?t=7411

I can never find the good threads like this when I search. If I am understanding correctly, a 14-bolt exhaust pattern is an easy to recognize and definitive indication of the presence of GT heads, right?

The 14 bolt head was a head utilizing the exhaust manifold for unibody cars. Came in Mustangs and fairlanes/Cyclones. Other then that there isnt a lot of difference in FE heads as far as valve size. There is scant difference in chambers(some). Some bigger valves were used on Later 428 motors which will bolt on but you have to be careful to make sure they fit the bore of a 390. You can drill any 67 and later head to accept the 14 bolt pattern. and this has been done to many heads. As far as casting dates,,,mmm well I would never say you wouldnt get an earlier casting date head because the factories used whatever they had. Higher volume engines like the 289/302 probably did better as parts were moving faster so their casting dates were more inline.

Steve be right on! I have seen original motors with casting dates one and two years old. Even from side to side on heads being widley different.

I drilled the 14 bolt pattern into a set of 1972 360 2 barrel heads! That should cause some questions someday..... As Steve said the pattern was to support the 390 GT and 428 Cobra Jet exhaust manifolds when used in a unibody car with shock towers.

Rob

Thanks for all the great information! I just stopped by the garage and talked to the guys and I definitely have the "good" heads. Actually, today was all good news...the broken pushrod has been retrieved from the cam area, the prior rebuild looked to be done to a fairly high standard, and little or no damage from the broken valve spring and broken and bent pushrods. It looks like we may be on track to take it to the big Mustang show on Saturday:grin:

Yeah I pretty much rode the 390/360 into the ground at Ford as I think I was the Last calibration engineer for the 390 in light trucks. By that time the old casting patterns were getting pretty worn and even though it was a pretty good motor, they werent going to make new patterns so it was replaced with the M motor. The 460 guys were making more torgue, more horsepower and getting the same gas mileage anyway so it was hard to justify keeping the old war horse 360/390. The 360 had the most torgue the transfer case in 4x4's could reliably handle at that time(couldnt use a 390 or a 460 in 4x4).

mechanicalguy48 said:

mmm well I would never say you wouldnt get an earlier casting date head because the factories used whatever they had.

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The factories did not just have parts laying around, it is well known the Ford used multiple sources for parts to ensure an adequate supply was always on hand. Each engine, transmission, rear end, interior was built for a particular application, to be used in/ on a particular car or truck, everything was manufactured using an order system.

Now, on the other hand Ford authorized rebuilders had a stock of parts just laying around for engines to be re-built. I remember in the early 80's going into a Ford Authorized Rebuilder and carrying out a couple sets of heads. They were just neadly stacked on a pallet waiting for an order.

6t8-390gt said:

The factories did not just have parts laying around, it is well known the Ford used multiple sources for parts to ensure an adequate supply was always on hand. Each engine, transmission, rear end, interior was built for a particular application, to be used in/ on a particular car or truck, everything was manufactured using an order system.

Now, on the other hand Ford authorized rebuilders had a stock of parts just laying around for engines to be re-built. I remember in the early 80's going into a Ford Authorized Rebuilder and carrying out a couple sets of heads. They were just neadly stacked on a pallet waiting for an order.

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This is just another source of information. My general practitioner in the for most of the 1980’s and 1990’s worked his way through college on the graveyard shift of the Ford engine line during the mid to late 1960’s. There is one rule on the production line. The line does not stop! As stated earlier in this thread the more stock stuff was readily available. 2 barrel 289 motors. But the high performance engine stuff was produced in more limited numbers. GT/390 stuff and of course Hipo 289 and 427 and 428 CJ stuff. J code 302 more limited.

My doctor said that on multiple occasions (did not ask for a count) that he would run out of high performance camshafts, heads, and other items. He would install more stock stuff if it were on hand. He said more than a few interesting configurations went down the line.

But in the case of 390 GT heads of that era, the 14 bolt pattern would be the only choice for a Mustang, so stock substitution of a truck or Galaxy head (earlier years) of 8 bolt pattern would not work.

My j code heads casting numbers were very close to the build date. I had an original 1969 Cobra Jet motor but did not know the build of the car it came out of. But the heads were within one day of each other as cast.

On another part of a car, my buddy had an original owner 1965 Falcon Futura hardtop. It had 1963 window handles on the inside. He got dinged at a car show for them. He knew they were original. Later we found an old “Ford Shop Tips” bulletin that specifically addressed a shortage from a supplier that forced this to happen in 1965.

Strange things happened back in the day!

Rob

One of my jobs as an engine engineer was to respond to customer problems that cropped up in the field that could not be solved at a lower level. I can tell you that while everyone likes to think the factory doesnt make substitutions or replacements, it happened, and it happened in some weird ways. You would find all kinds of things in an engine that werent supposed to be there, carbs distributors and so on, so the thought that each engine and trans and so on is waiting on a list somewhere for a certain car is not right. While it might be the goal, and Ford certainly had a long history of doing it they still made mistakes, engineering changes, inventory changes, mods, running changes order mixups,shift changes, and just plain serendipity all pile up to make it interesting.
If your thinking that each and every engine is built for a certain car ,,it wasnt,,, if your thinking that every engine was built to the current configuration,,it wasnt. If the engine factory had extra 390 heads in a pallet that got moved, they used them, because to not use them cost a lot of money.

I think what your talking about 6T8-390Gt is an assembly plant where the lines run cars based on the order system, of course and dont run that particular car if they dont have the parts. But an Assembly plant is the end of the line of a lot of plants, Ford manufactured its own engines and that plant didnt wait for an order to cast, machine and build up an engine, they had to be up and running at day one of production. You might have several vendors for rubber tubing but you have only one casting plant and only one carburetor plant and so on, those parts come together long before your car is ordered. They recieve running changes all the time and those changes change parts and so on, its a very complex operation and it breaks down in some instances, its remarkable how well they do it however.

Ford had the Cleveland Foundry and the Dearborn Iron Foundry; this is why some cast parts have CF cast into them and others have DIF cast into them. I disagree that the engine assembly plant operated by Ford worked any differently than the other assembly plants run by Ford. How did they know how many 289 engines to build if they didn't have orders for them?

I find it highly unlikely that heads cast in 1966 layed around the foundry or engine assembly plant for 15 months before they were assembled on an engine. That is what I am saying to the original question posed.


40 plus years after production, 2, 3, 5, owners later alot of things could change. It is much more likely that the heads were replaced when the rest of the non-original engine was replaced. If the heads were March '68 cast one would have more support to claim the heads are original. I will not believe any heads hi-performace or not were cast 15 months before production and original to the car unless there is supporting documentation.

I do not dispute that Ford may have substituted parts, engine or otherwise, to keep the line moving. However, engine and transmission tags clearly indicate level changes to assist technicians. TSB's and Federal recalls often refer to specific level changes or serial numbers. You can thank Ralph Nader for that! You can also thank Nader for requiring manufacturers to keep these records because that is why we have the Marti reports today.

Well I think my answer was meant to convey that its not impossible. I agree its unlikely that those heads are stock. I just worked there, so if you have information that says they ordered each piece part on each car and waited for delievery on each order, and tracked each one for each piece part,,,well your free to believe that. Thats what makes this country great.

According to someone who should know (MCA and SAAC judge) that I happened to run into yesterday, my heads do not have some type of hole or connecting point for some of the smog equipment that would have been original to a 4 speed car. There must be only a handful of these cars in Ohio and I parked next to one yesterday...guess I should have taken pics since it's probably rare to see more than one at a time. I know we were the only one at a pretty large Mustang show on Saturday.

Does the info above match what you folks know to be true?? I have some suspicion that the gentleman might know way more about the Shelby's than the CS's since it was his claim that all of the CS cars came with the little bumper guards, as his did, but all in all, he did seem to really know the cars...

Steve,
The bumper guards were standared equipment on the Mustang at the beginning of the production year; but Ford made it optional in early '68. There is a Sales Brochure Supplement dated 12-12-67 that outlines these changes. The wheel lip mouldings and bumper guards came together; so if your Marti report indicates wheel lip mouldings you should also have the bumper guards. If no wheel lip moulding you should not have the bumper guards. Since all CS cars were built later in the production year this should apply.

The thermactor smog system was standard on 390-4v, 4 speed cars regardless of where they were sold in the U.S.; Canadian cars are another story.

Danny

6t8-390gt said:

Steve,

The thermactor smog system was standard on 390-4v, 4 speed cars regardless of where they were sold in the U.S.; Canadian cars are another story.

Danny

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Correct. As I understand it all manual transmission V8 1968 Mustangs, sold in the US, were equipped with the Thermactor smog system (smog pump), not just the California cars.

Mosesatm said:

Correct. As I understand it all manual transmission V8 1968 Mustangs, sold in the US, were equipped with the Thermactor smog system (smog pump), not just the California cars.

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Correct this was a 50 state thing in 68 and included some automatic equipped cars also in the Mustang line up