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Living with a Fake?

guest

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I was just wondering the other day about people that have built "replicas", or more commonly known as "fakes" of GT/CS or HCS cars (or any other version of limited edition Mustang or Shelby). I wondered how they answer questions on the road, or at a gas station, etc., when they are asked "is that a real one"? or...if they hear "nice CS". How do they answer?

If this person has purposely made a replica to mislead people into thinking that it's "real", how far, and for how long can this charade go on with good conscious? I would think that at some point, someone would "expose" this fake via my books, or from this website, or other sources. Certainly, at a car show, they'd find out real fast. I once saw someone with a "replica" CS leave the middle of a car show once someone brought a copy of my book to show him.

I'm not saying to not ever modify a Mustang coupe, etc., to your liking, but to misrepresent one'self with a created car like this must be akward on a daily basis.

What I'd suggest, if anyone would like to make something with these type of parts--is to make a Little Red, or Green Hornet, and admit that it was built as a replica of the prototypes. Heck--having something modified with such historical detail would be awesome!! I'd also include some of the same parts that they're putting in those "Eleanor" cars made in Texas. With all the hot new FORD Motorsport/SVT engines (i.e. 5.4 liter supercharged Ford GT engine?), and Total Control suspension parts, etc...you could build a really fast and awesome Mustang. A Ferrari red Lil' Red with black vinyl top, black leather seats and Shelby ten spokes, with the '67 Shelby nose, hood and rear would be a real eyecatcher. After all, it was the inspiration for the GT/CS project!

Here is an idea of what it looked like (seats, wheels, and air cleaner are not right tho')
http://www.cars-on-line.com/67must10054.html

I just wanted to share this....and I'm wondering about your thoughts.

Paul.
 
Joined
Jun 21, 2003
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I don't believe that its that big of a moral decision for most people Paul. I think your making a big deal out of nothing have a "fake" GT/CS, or as I like calling it a replica. Most people that build these don't have in mind selling them, or posing them for real ones. Its not that hard to build a perfect replica, that could fool the best. In fact, anyone that would like to do so, please feel free to e-mail me and I will answer any questions. If its out of your price range to buy a real GT/CS, go ahead and build up a replica GT/CS or HCS. The parts and decals are out now, and its easy and cheap. And if its just as good as real to you, then so be it. Who cares what others think. Pauls books just touch on most of the visual identifications of the GT/CS, and the parts that he did leave out(to prevent others from building a perfect replica) as he said before, leaves others to question the true authenticity of a real GT/CS if they didn't know otherwise. I would be more than happy to e-mail anyone that would like to know what Paul did leave out of his books to build up a perfect replica(except for those who already know).
 
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guest

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Since I precipitated your comments (and "ethics") here , I'll let them stand on their own for everyone to see.

Perhaps they may be seen by those at SAAC (Shelby American Automobile Club), MCA (Mustang Club of America), or Mustang Monthly...

..as well as the readers of these threads...and "real" GT/CS and HCS owners..

and oh, yes......maybe I left something out of my books, and maybe I didn't.

PMN ::)
 

BrandonB

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May 21, 2003
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Mrshelbydallas you really sicken me, because of your not caring about the difference between replicas and originals and telling people to go make fakes your just asking for people to go around lying saying its a real one. You cannot honestly tell me you are going to trust people, if anyone has the chance to rip someone off more then likly they will take it. and if you also say its their fault for not being educated into GT/CS' or HCS' thats a dumb answer also becuase little to none of the people out there have seen or heard of a GT/CS or HCS (granted HCS has a better chance spanning over more years). Your "clone kits" that you are trying to make will allow people to make fakes of the real cars and that will make the rarity of our car depreciate and that in turn makes our cars less valued and at having so few real ones left the last thing we need is some head strong person thinking that they have a right to fool others with their little kit cars and ruin the real owns worth.
Sure my cars never going to leave my garage with out me in no matter how much someone offers me but its still nice to know my cars worth a good lump sum. I am full heartdly against your copies to create fakes and if I knew how I would definately check into it to see if what your doing is against the law for sure. Be it copy right infrindgements or whatever I dont care all I know is that I dont need to see fakes of mine or anyone elses car sitting next to me at a show. How would you feel if you owned the real McCoy and you lost at a car show to a fake...a cheap good for nothing fake? It sure a hell piss me off. :mad:

-BrandonB
 
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I posted my thoughts on the matter just as requested. My ethics are not in question here, or my products. I do not promote people passing of replica GT/CS, or HCS as original cars. If I wanted to do that, I would just let everyone know how to fool the Marti report and make their car authentic to the books. I just promote people getting into the GT/CS, and HCS hobby. And I do trust people, I believe most people are good. And besides, eveyone knows once they are discovered, there is a lawsuit against them. Paul, don't ask questions in the future if your not going to want answers. You said yourself before that you did leave something out of your book, are you calling yourself a liar?? I think the things you left out of your book was because of overlooked things, not intentional things. Who are you to be-little Replica owners?? A car is supposed to make an individual happy, its not supposed to make everyone else happy that sees it. So if someone wants to build up a replica, go for it. That is what makes you happy. Paul, you obviously are in the hobby for the wrong reasons if you are trying to please others before yourself. You are supposed to enjoy your car for yourself, and not live through it for others enjoyment or for their apporval(whether it be original or a replica). Maybe if you took these life guidlines into account, you would be something else but a bitter, old man. I've also seen many articles in mustang monthly featuring peoples cars that are replicas of sorts. From what I see, most people are for replicas and support them except the people that are selfish enough to want to keep their mustang hobby to an ecletic group. Take what you will from this, but I can assure you, owners of replica GT/CS and HCS, will be undaunted by your attempts to thwart their hobby. They are in it for happiness, not greed, selfishness, or the hopes of selling it as the real deal.

Oh, Brandon, Thanks for the comments. I'm sorry to hear about your physical ailment upon reading my post. I hope your all better now. Your car obviously has tremendous sentimental value and fiscal value. But, I'm sure that you sell it for the right price. This forum post isn't to discuss my products, so please read the post next time you wish to participate in it. And for your information, I do own a real GT/CS, and I would have no problem going up against a replica at a car show. If I didn't have my stuff together, and didn't even know enough about my car to make it better than someone who built the replica, they deserve to win the show. And believe me, building up a replica that passes a trained eye like mine is definetly beyond most people. I'm sure that the judges hired at shows know replicas over authentic. If someone does lie, and enters a replica as a authentic GT/CS, that lie is on thier shoulders, not mine. My goal at a car show is to have fun, and present the best example of a GT/CS I can afford and maintain. Most people would not even think about doing what you are talking about anyway. They don't build up their car to win car shows as authentic. A good replica is definately not, "fake", or "good for nothing", or "cheap". I've seen shelby replicas sell for over $20K. And I've seen some nice GT/CS replicas(advertised as replicas) sell for more than a authentic similar condition GT/CS. The value of something is what someone is willing to pay for it. You and Paul need to ask yourself the question, "If I'm not in this for happiness, what am I in it for?" But I am definetly in it for happiness, as I am sure the silent majority in this forum are.
 

66 Dearborn HCS

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Nov 5, 2003
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170
I guess my problem with all of this, is the fact that it makes it harder to prove my own car is real. :mad: Especially if I take it to future car shows. I have to overdocument my car now to prove it's real. I already have ENOUGH problems doing that. If it weren't for the original paint with the badges over it, my car could easily be a green color of the month car. :-\
 
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I don't have any clones, but if my CS wasn't "real," at the gas station when someone told me it was a nice car, I'd just say "thanks!" It's not necessary to get into a big discussion with your average Joe (no offenense intended to anyone, please) who is admiring your car at the store or gas station or where-ever about what your car is or isn't...they are, for the most part, pretty clueless about Mustangs and the options available on the different years, and they really don't want an eye-glaze-inducing lecture on the various details that makes a car "real" or a clone, they just want to talk for a bit and admire the sweet ride.

I have a '69 Mach I "R" code 428 that I was washing out in my front yard over the summer. A young guy was walking by and came up to admire the car. He asked me what the engine was, a 351 Cleveland? I held my tongue about Clevelands not being actually put into '69 cars and I just told him it was a 428 CobraJet. He proceeded to correct me three times by saying "Oh, you mean it's a 429." After being polite for the first two corrections ("no, it's a 42-8"), I launched into a long discourse on the FE series of engines in general and the production run of the 428s in Mustangs. That finally made him go away, but I think he probably still believes I have a 429 in my car (and I guess if he thinks I have a Boss 429, that's ok!).

My point is, I'm really the only one who cares if my car is "real" or not and if the engine and transmission numbers match, and if my components all have the correct date codes on them, etc, etc. In the big picture, this stuff is totally irrelevant to almost everyone but the true Mustang purists--there are WAY, WAY more Mustang enthusiasts than purists out there. So for most people, a clone is just another very nice looking Mustang and it's authenticity doesn't matter. Flooding the market with cloned Shelbys sure hasn't seemed to affect the "real" Shelby's value if eBay prices are any indication of the market, so I really don't think producing a bunch of fake CS/GTs will lower the value of a real CS.

I do believe that passing a fake off as the real thing to a buyer or at a show is highly unethical, however. On the other hand, I do believe that myself and anyone else in the market for buying a vintage Mustang has a responsibility to be somewhat informed about their purchase. As for a purchase of any item that's relatively expensive, the buyer needs to do some research--for example, if you're buying an expensive horse, you have it vet checked first, even if the owner tells you it's not lame or whatever. Cars are the same way. Sometimes the seller can be totally clueless themselves and be misleading you thru their own ignorance and not out of malice! When I bought my CS/GT, I didn't take the time to get a Marti report and I was gambling on the line the seller was feeding me. But I looked at the sale like it was at face value: a completely solid, rust-free '68 for a reasonable price for a '68 coupe. If the price reflected the CS value, I would've gotten a rushed Marti report, which can be had on the same day it's ordered if you have access to a FAX machine. I ordered the Marti report later and did authenticate the car. And when I go to sell the car, I'll show the prospective buyers the Marti report and my photos of the VIN stamps in the fenders...and if they don't believe that the car is real and are being offensive, I'll send them on their merry way--without my car.
 
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I have a unique perspective on this debate as I own a real 1969 Shelby GT-500 and a clone 1968 Shelby GT-350 Anyone with enough money to buy a real Shelby "should" do some research to insure that the car they are purchasing is an authentic Shelby. If they are not knowledgable about idnetifying real Shelbys. They can contact Rick Kopec at SAAC or the Shelby Registry for assistance in the matter. If some pimple faced kid wants to put side scoops, stripes and some decals on his Mustang and and clone a GT/SC or a HCS or a Shelby.....so what? The clones to not depreciate or devaluate our real cars; not one penny. The clones actually get driven, which gives much more exposure to the real cars. Lets face it....... Truth be known the GT/CS & HCS are really nothing more than "plain jane" Mustang coupes that dealers were having a hard time moving; so they dressed them up with a little bit more plastic with some stripes. I do not want to diminish the historical value / significance of these fine and rare cars, as they are indeed rare and unusual. However, it is as always "buyer beware" and anyone that owns a real Shelby, or GT/CS or HCS should take it as a compliment when they see a clone being driven around. Someone obviously admired the real thing enough to invest the time, effort and expense to create a clone. Lets not get out panties in a twist people! I do not want a lot of nasty emails about how I do not understand; because I really do understand and I really do get it. Shelbys are very very expensive, $30,000 and up if you can find one that needs work. Shelbys are limited production cars and if you have the money; you can not always get the color and options that you want, when you want the car. The same can be said for the GT/CS and HCS cars as these were produced in limited quantities as well. Bottomline is that Shelby / Mustang purists need to take a deep breath and relax a bit. You do not own the Mona Lisa, there were way more than 1 ever made. Cloning theses cars is not like counterfeiting money, unless they intend to misrepresent the car at the time of sale. Again let the Buyer Beware! Furthermore the value of the real cars is not effected by clones, no matter how many clones there are. And if some guy wants to tell a hot chick that he met at the gas pumps the he has a Shelby rather than a clone Mustang.........really what the hell do I care? And it should not bother you either! Unless you are a hot chick that only chases $helby owners in which case you are shallow gold digger and we probably do want you riding shot gun no matter how hot you may be. Bottomline is that clones are the most sincere form of flattery that can be paid to a rare car.
 

hookedtrout

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I find this to be a very interesting topic. I read through the posts and was going to reply when I started thinking pretty deep about it so I walked away and spent some more time thinking.

As a kid the first car I ever remember seeing that caught my attention was a GTO Judge, I had to be 7-8 years old. The car is very similar to a GT/CS in that it is a regular car with some cosmetic additions to take a step up. Once I was old enough to get my own car I purchased a 65 Mustang and my love for Mustangs was born. I still have a spot deep down for the Judge and would love someday to have one. I have never been a high performance speed crazed car lover. I love the Muscle Cars for their appearance not the HP. Would I be happy with a GTO Judge that at one point was a regular GTO or Tempest...cloned? I think I would and I would have it to satisfy my desires all of which are based on the appearance of the car. I would never try to sell it off or imply that it was a real Judge I wouldn't care. I simply love the looks of the car, I really wouldn't even care if it had a 6 cylinder in it, I'd rather it had a beefy V8 but either way would be fine. I would love someday to own a Cobra 428 replica as well, a 289 under the hood would be plenty for me and my budget but I would like it to have the 428 beefy look on the exterior. Would I prefer the original? Yes, is the value of it worth what I want it for? No. I would want it to drive and have fun in and it would be easier to do that knowing it wasn't a $50,000 or $100, 000 car.

So, I guess I don't have any issues with replicas. If you would have asked me that off the top of my head yesterday directly relating to the GT/CS I would have probably been negative instantly about the entire idea.

So much for that.
 
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Does anyone know if any Ford dealers ever made any GTCS clone cars as they did the 65/66 GT option? It would have been very easy to do back in 68 when all the parts were available.
 

66 Dearborn HCS

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[quote author=joe jurcik link=board=1;threadid=674;start=0#msg3631 date=1068503792]
Does anyone know if any Ford dealers ever made any GTCS clone cars as they did the 65/66 GT option? It would have been very easy to do back in 68 when all the parts were available.
[/quote]

Bob and I spoke for over an hour this evening on the phone regarding this possibility. Especially when it comes to my specific car. I have a 66 coupe with the original factory paint in Timberline Green and it had the original '66 HCS Badges on both fenders. They were stolen after I removed them for restoration. The projected build date on my buck tag shows "226" which we are assuming is "22G". 22G being July 22d in Dearborn. The original HCS's had not even been placed for sale by that date. They had arrived in Denver on the 18th, but weren't presented for sale by the dealerships until July 23 for sale. Only 1 day after my car's scheduled build. Why place a special order for this specific car a day before it's "brothers" are being presented for sale? ??? The original 333 were built less than a month earlier in San Jose. So the question is, "What is my car?" It came from the wrong plant and was scheduled to be built only the day before the unveiling. We dicussed a dealer doing a special order in Timberline Green and adding the badges when It arrived. But why place a special order for one just a day before the release??? The dealership had just as much chance as any other dealer to get one without having to order another from the factory?? They were on the way with Santa Fe giving the ride. This car wasn't ordered after the originals had been around and were getting scarce. Thinking he was making a dealer installed HCS. The badge was dealer installed anyway. The only difference at the factory was the paint. Records show that some cars weren't sold for several months after arrival.

Why the special order to make a clone when the original being cloned isn't available yet?? The timeline just doesn't fit. Maybe there was a buyer who wanted the color on a plain jane 'Stang and when it arrived he thought the HCS badge looked neat, and out of coincidence this special order paint just happened to be Timberline Green?? All, lots of what ifs. Another possibility is maybe there was some damage to one of the originals during transport and they needed another one built quickly to replace it? That could fit why the build date was scheduled between the day the cars left CA and arrived in CO. Maybe it's a replacement? Maybe the dealership thought that he wasn't gonna get the chance to get an original HCS so he had one special ordered in the correct paint and added the badge once it arrived. The car was sold in Pueblo, CO on 8/16/66 @ Jess Hunter Motor Co. There were still other HCS's out there sold as late as October (documented) and I'm sure beyond then. A special order wasn't necessary. Most of these don't make sense, but are theoretically possible.

Bob and I clarified a few things about this car also. I don't want to mirepresent myself as the owner of the only Dearborn built HCS. I thought that Bob had confirmed it to be the real thing, He did not confirm it because there are too many questions as to it's origin and history. But he is willing to leave it in the registry as the car is representative of a real 66 HCS. And there's such a lack of info as to why the car exists. Other than the build date and factory code, there is no way to differentiate this car from any other '66 HCS. I wish Kevin Marti could haelp us here. :-\ I will be contacting Tony Popish @ the Special Paint Registry, to see if this color was a special order option on any other vehicles. I know there were other special order greens, I want to see if any of those match my paint. We may find an answer if it does. There's the potential of this car being a color of the month that got HCS badges on it accidentally because of the paint color. Bob is not willing to say with absolute certainty that this IS an HCS. The car is quite convincing. This is one twisted knotted tale, and I'm gonna try to figure it out. One big problem is that the original owner is dead.
If any of you guys have more ideas, please post them!!

I will change my post quotes to add question marks around my car info and sig line. ;)
 
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My original post presented the idea of how it must feel for those with these fakes to be approached by others, some very knowledgeable about these cars (usually from my books), and how they live with this. There are plenty of others already making almost everything to make a fake--which has been out there for many years. I've helped in the reproduction of many replacement parts for owners wishing to restore their GT/CS, with Delta Bay Mustang and Tony Branda Performance. This is nothing new, and the market is and would be very low for people to actually buy a "kit". I speak from experience, and from my years in marketing at a major national Mustang parts store. If this was a "good idea", you woulkd have seen Shelby kits, Boss 302 kits, etc. long ago.

All these years I have never had anyone ask me "how could I make a fake GT/CS?" I've had nothing but respect from owners and enthusuasts in the mail, and on the phone, and the need for them to know that they had an authentic GT/CS (or HCS). This is very important to them--and these are hundreds of people I've heard from--from over the past 20 years.

My only problem is how these fakes will be sold down the line to those unaware. Sure, "buyer beware", but why compound this deception to potential buyers? I think it's pretty naive to think that just because these cars are built, that they will 'never" be misrepresented at some later date, whether intentional or not. Those who are serious about the hobby, DO care about authenticity. "Fooling" a car show judge or anyone else, serves no purpose, and I feel, is very defiant and disrespectful.

Since I began this project in 1984, I've seen just about every type of "fake" GT/CS, and HCS, and over the years have caught many that never made it into the Registry--including cars with CS parts transferred onto a stock coupe (I'd say that overall, I've found less than 50 fakes' info sent to me--it's not all that popular to try) It IS impossible to create a "perfect" GT/CS (HCS) replica, and if it were possible, the costs of making these parts today would be cost-prohibitive. The original production fiberglass wasn't really fiberglass, but a type of plastic stamped in steel molds at A.O. Smith in Iona Michigan. I have never seen repro fiberglass that has replicated the original, that included the same radiused edges, textures, etc. The steel plates in the trunk (also used in '68 Shelbys) would cost too much to produce, as they were stamped in a ($100,000) steel mold, too. You would have to sell thousands just to break even.

I think that anyone who reads both of my books (and there are some on these boards that know quite a lot), will be able to spot a fake. Anyone with this knowledge WILL be able to do this. This is partly why I went to all the time and expense to do these books--to promote and educate everyone about the car that they love. Previous Mustang magazine articles were pathetic, with mistakes, and I felt it important to preserve this history properly and to tell others. Some of these cars sell for over $20,000, and I don't want to see buyers or sellers unaware that they were duped, whether intentionally or not. I've seen three fake CS convertibles at a "collector car store", with no one aware that FORD never made them.

I didn't spend many years of research and publishing of this subject to play games like this thread on a message board. My work speaks for itself, and I stand by what I've done, and am quite proud of it. I've been honored by the appreciation and thanks I've received by literally hundreds of letters, e-mail and phone calls over the years. There are many, many wonderful owners and enthusiasts of this car that deserve my respect and defense of those who truly care about authenticity. Also--it's MORE than just a Mustang. Its Shelby heritage prompted its history to be included in the 1997 SAAC Registry Book (and the new edition, too).

I'm not all that concerned about the advent of "fakes" being built, since my work and my books are the best defense to preserve this Mustang "pedigre". The addition of the Marti report & the Ford 999 report, guarantees this car's proper heritage to those who care. It's been my experience that there is a real stigma with owners and enthusiasts to built fake limited edition Mustangs. This car is way too documented, and the owners are way too knowledgeable--to fool anyone.

PMN

p.s. to my knowledge, there have not been any Ford-Dealer built GT/CS cars that have surfaced. It was considered way too difficult and costly to modify coupes like this at the service dept.
 

Russ

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Knowledge is a very powerful thing, and Paul, you have provided the knowledge for us to have this type of discussion through your books. Thanks again!

GT/CS/HCS clones, fakes, an resto-mods are the greatest form of flattery that our cars can receive, and it is clear that the more desireable the car, the more clones and fakes will appear. Just look at the replica "Cobra" market. If clones and fakes are sold, it is up to the buyer AND the honesty of the seller to be clear that the car is not a true GT/CS/HCS. If something unethical takes place, then civil litigation can, and should, take place.

Being a Shelby, GT/CS and Mustang GT owner, I attend shows and compete with all types of cars. Car shows are a great place to meet people and "talk" cars. The ONLY shows that have any relevance to my cars though, are MCA or SAAC regional or national events, because judges at these shows know what they are doing (no "Best of Shows" based upon crowd approval).

I also think this website assits anyone considering purchasing a CS or HCS, and that is extremely important. As I said, knowledge i power, and the more one can learn, the more power he holds.

Just my thoughts,
Russ
 

hookedtrout

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Your question on how would a person feel in representing a fake/replica when approached by others in my opinion would all be based on the individuals personality and intent. if it was the intent of the person making the car to misrepresent it for fraudulent purposes then they would probably feel like most criminals feel. The extent would all depend on how hardened of a criminal they were. Some reach a point of no concern at all.

If on the other hand a person had an honest approach in life I don't think there would be an issue. I use the GTO approach because I have no knowledge on what it would take to make a fake GTO Judge outside of the fact it needs a tail spoiler and stripes. If I were to attempt to make a Judge there is no way I would go to the length of finding out what run of serial number should be on the car etc etc. I would simply buy the spoiler for the back and the stripe kit and paint it the color of a Judge, and get the wheels on it that I wanted. As for the interior and engine etc I would do to them what made me comfortable and I liked but it would have no basis on making it into something I could pass off as the real deal.

If approached on the street by someone I would have no problem saying hey it's fake but I like it because I love the looks of the Judge just couldn't afford one myself, heck it wouldn't even bother me to put FAKEJDG on the license plate but that's my personality. Would it bother me if the guy driving next to me was thinking to himself wow that's stupid, a fake Judge? Nope, it wasn't done for him.

I'm sure there are those that would take the dishonest approach but those types will be into something dishonest no matter what it is or how they do it.

Does it hurt the car show arena or the sale or value of the special interest cars, I don't know, it would be interesting to find out. It may be as disscussed before that the exposure would actually increase the value and if PMN is correct there won't be enough interest in makeing a fake to actually flood the market so this just may be the case. Maybe I can get the government to give me a million dollar grant to do a study on this. Heck then I could get the real deal "Judge" along with a real deal "Shelby" and put them both in my brand new climate controled shop ;D

Cory
 
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As long as you don't intend to cheat people, I don't believe that there is any problem with making a replica GT/CS. I think Russ makes a good point about the the cobra. How many people have you seen driving replica cobras with a shameful or guilty look on their face? I have only seen proud owners that just know people are admiring their cars that they have put so much work into. If I want to drive around a GT/CS that I have always dreamed about, but can't get the real thing, should I feel bad simply because Paul Newitt says I should? Certainly not!!!
 
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First, I totally agree with Russ and Cory. I'll be looking for that $M grant to study this...LOL!!

I never said that anyone should "feel bad" for making a fake. I think it is all in attitude, and honesty. The purists (and believe me, I've seen that extreme, and it ain't pretty) want only 110% authenticity to a fault. On the other hand, I just don't like anyone going out of their way to fake these cars--only in how it might affect value to other real cars. But, again, I've not seen that many to really worry too much about, and I've yet to (personally) see a convincing fake out there.

My only point is to speak out when I see something compromising the integrity of those "real" cars out there, owned by many in the registry...

I suggest that this website help anyone to identify the authenticity of a car they wish to buy. If it 'floats your boat" to build up a GT/CS, or HCS from existing parts on the market--then go for it, but be honest about it. I've yet to see a decent Lil Red or Green Hornet replica made.

Thanks for all your comments, and for getting this out into the open for discussion.

Paul.
 

hookedtrout

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Idaho
All things aside Paul, I do appreciate all the hard work you have put into our little California Special world. I have both books and they are priceless additions to my collection. If it weren't for you I wouldn't have near the understanding or interest in the GT/CS that I do. After the car show in SLC I came back with a lot of questions as I received a lot of questions and I really didn't know what I owned at the time. I then found you as a resource and ordered the book.

I also appreciate your bringing up topics such as this. Like I said before the answers I gave involved a lot of deep thought and they weren't the answers I thought I would give. But they were honest, just the same as I'd be if I did clone me car some day. With any luck the grant will come through and I won't ever have to worry about it and you're sure welcome to be on the team.

Cory
 

deestix

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 21, 2003
Messages
58
VERY interesting thread...
For your reading pleasure and knowledge, I would refer you all to the latest (Nov. '03) edition of Sports Car Market, an excellent magazine by the way, which has an article entitled "The FAKE and the FALL Guy". To summarize: an enthusiast may build a fake just for his own enjoyment, but once the car gets into the marketplace, someone deceiptful passes the car off as The Real Thing, to great profit.

The article talks about a man who built a fake Ferrari 250 GT SWB, sold it as the real thing, and went to JAIL for 2 years. Another observation from this article is the comment that this type of forgery has been going on in the world of fine art for decades ("I can't afford that Van Gogh, so I'll just have a copy made. Why not? It's my money, and I don't ever intend to tell anyone it's not real".) Sounds awfully like some of the previous posts.

In MY opinion: it's your car, and this is America, so you can do whatever you want. But with GT/CS's, stripes and fiberglass add-on's will get you your gas station stares, and will only fool the most unknowledgable. Once you start attempting to duplicate all the pieces not usually visible, and maybe the data plate, you are crossing the ethical line.
Richard R.
 
Joined
Jun 21, 2003
Messages
75
It isn't impossible, or very expensive to make a perfect visual replica of a shelby part, or make a perfect GT/CS replica that would fool the Mardi report(which is illegal and I'm not promoting). I agree with you on one thing though, if you were to strip off the paint, one would be able to tell, because the pink fiberglass isn't used anymore, and its very prone to warping and cracking. I've been making these "perfect" parts for months now, and would be willing to bet that with paint on both parts next to each other, no one could tell these parts from each other. A mold of a perfect part give way to a perfect replica part. From most of the responses from my customers, I would have to go ahead and disagree and state the fact that there is a great demand for kits. People like kits, it makes things easy for people.
The mustang hobby isn't about keeping the "pedigree pure". Its about attracting attention, and newcomers to keep the hobby going on for generations. I believe its our duty to do this, for others in the future to continue to enjoy building, modifiying, and sporting these classic cars, even if they are replicas.
 
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