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1968 Fake 1967 California Special for sale by Dealer

GC7

New member
Joined
Jun 8, 2011
Messages
4
Location
Scott AFB, IL
Hi Everyone! My name is Geno and I would like to introduce myself to the forum crowd. I purchased my first California Special in May of 2011 and I am fairly new to posting on the site.

I wanted to post tonight to introduce myself, but to primarily to tell you about a fake California Special for sale by a dealer that I came across surfing the web. The dealer appears to deal in classic cars and is trying to pass off a recently restored 1967 Mustang as a real California Special. They even have a video talking about all of the unique CS options the car has. I emailed him to tell him it isn’t real and why it’s not real, so we’ll see if he changes his advertising for the car, but thought you would find it interesting.

http://www.flemingsultimategarage.com/1967-ford-mustang-california-special--c-872.htm
 

classicsguy

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 21, 2002
Messages
1,519
Once you advertise as a 1967 California special everyone should know by now that the only year they were made was 1968 and its NOT a true GT/CS.
 
OP
OP
G

GC7

New member
Joined
Jun 8, 2011
Messages
4
Location
Scott AFB, IL
I'll be honest with you, I'm originally from Boston and after spending a couple of decades in the Air Force and owning several classic Mustangs I had practically no knowledge of Specials until I saw my current CS for sale and did some research on it before buying it. So, I could easily see someone thinking it is a real California Special - especially if a dealer is claiming it is.
 

Midnight Special

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Joined
Nov 5, 2005
Messages
3,713
Location
Grass Valley, California
I'll be honest with you, I'm originally from Boston and after spending a couple of decades in the Air Force and owning several classic Mustangs I had practically no knowledge of Specials until I saw my current CS for sale and did some research on it before buying it. So, I could easily see someone thinking it is a real California Special - especially if a dealer is claiming it is.

...That's very a true and good point. Many who see us at shows are likewise unaware. Always best to politely educate them rather than accuse them of fraud off the bat...
 

Mustanglvr

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 4, 2004
Messages
3,258
Wow! Good catch Geno! Alot of people who don't do their research would believe this is a real GT/CS. I'm glad you brought this to our attention. This is not only a clone GT/CS, but it's a BAD clone GT/CS!
 

Midnight Special

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 5, 2005
Messages
3,713
Location
Grass Valley, California
...You wouldn't believe the folks who still try to say they once had a GT/CS, but it was a '69 or '70. Or for that matter, buying my first in 1978 and thinking it had to be a rare Shelby variant. We take for granted what we've learned here over the years and I hate to think how messed up it would still be had Jon not created this site +/- 10 years ago. Newitt's and Bob Teet's research as well, but for the less than dedicated, would not have seen the light of day without these forums...
 
OP
OP
G

GC7

New member
Joined
Jun 8, 2011
Messages
4
Location
Scott AFB, IL
Heard back from the owner and he said he knows it's not a real CS and he has it stated in the remarks that it has been "restored and reproduced" at the bottom of the blurb of text. By looking at the entire listing and watching his video he's pushing it as CS. I told him he should list it as a CS Tribute car so people know. Doubt he'll change anything.
 

Mosesatm

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 18, 2005
Messages
9,009
The NADA high retail value of a '67 Mustang is around $25K so the seller certainly isn't using '67 Mustang NADA figures in his ad.

NADA shows a '68 GT/CS with a 302 at roughly $35,000 which is what the listing shows.

Sounds a little dishonest to me.
 

Mosesatm

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 18, 2005
Messages
9,009
Here is the seller's response to my comments about the ad.

Tony Fleming said:
Hi Arlie,
Thank you for your good eye and as Im sure your aware, there was no California Special in 67 and thats the reason we list it as a reproduction in the ad. As far as value of 35K , thats roughly what we have as the restoration costs.
Thanks again for looking.

Thanks,Tony


Tony Fleming
President+Hot Rodder
Classic, Muscle & Sports cars
Rockville MD. 301-816-1000
www.FlemingsUltimateGarage.com


Here is my response to his response.

mosesatm said:
Tony,

Your ad says that the NADA value is $35,000 and we both know that NADA does not show that value for a '67 Mustang, but it is the NADA value for a true '68 GT/CS. You also know that the money spent on the car has nothing to do with the NADA figures so your excuse for using that figure is weak at best and dishonest at worst.


The description of the car is also deceptive. You are correct that anyone who knows California Specials knows that the car is not even remotely close to a GT/CS but those who are not Mustang-savvy could easy be deceived by your ad.

And it keeps going
TonyFleming said:
Good afternoon,
Is it safe to say that any car you have restored you would mention what it cost you to restore it for a value? Do you like a good value? I think the answer is yes, and that Im not sure that the person who can afford this car should buy it if the words "Reproduction" , Custom Air-conditioning, upgraded digital sound, 17" torque thrusts wheels, I mean the list goes on assumes at any point this is the real deal matching #'s hallowed CS.
I also think of you as a proponent to keep the poseurs from entering the rare air you long to protect in the California Special arena, a car that was closer to original might be a better place to spend your free time enlightening us of our practices.


Thanks,Tony
 
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franklinair

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 1, 2007
Messages
4,740
IMHO, this is a dealer centered on profit over integrity. Note that in the main description of this car he uses the word "reproduced" versus restored. Scroll down to the bottom of his page and you can read all sorts of caveats & disclaimers to relieve them of legal (not to mention moral) responsibilities. To try to convince this type of business otherwise is simply a waste of time.
Let The Buyer Beware.:icon_evil

Neil
 

rvrtrash

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 25, 2003
Messages
3,649
In the past, some have been upset that we've debated and questioned whether a car is a true CS or not, but it's to protect buyers from sellers like this guy. No one wants to spend $35k on a car that turns out to be worth $15K. I have no problem with clones/tributes/recreations, whatever you want to call them, but do have a problem with someone lying to rip someone else off. Call it like it is and let the car stand or fall on it's own merits.

Steve
 

CoalHillRockabilly

New member
Joined
Sep 10, 2012
Messages
1
Avoid Flemings like the plague

I would avoid this dealer like the plague.

Unfortunately my boyfriend has bought a car from them that is no where near the condition they claimed. The cars are no where near the quality that they advertise, and by no means offer the customer service that advertise.

Their rating with the BBB is an F.

This car has been in his possession for less than 5 months. The car was supposed to be a frame off restoration a show able drivable car. This car has never seen inclement weather. It is stored in an temperature controlled garage. It has been driven less than 200 miles.

This is what they consider a quality floor replacement.... It appears to be put in with liquid nails.

100_0507-1.jpg


This car also has several spots of rust through in the under carriage and supports.

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100_0544-1.jpg


The paint looks great on the upper half of the car but once you get it up on a lift in decent lighting.. you find

Runs in the paint

100_0501.jpg


The paint is cracking

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Oh these are supposed to be new quarters and fenders.. Why are they rusting

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Oh I could get into the mechanical issues with this car too... The rear end which is supposed to be new is anything but.... The brakes were locking up..... The exhaust knocks even you go over a small bump. We give them credit the inside of the car is beautiful. Even the clock works but he bought a car to drive.

Here videos of the car....

First Flemings video to be fair...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yIusq6sKdog

Now ours...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RnhPyMLFElQ

Oh I have more proof if interested. I also have been contacted by over a dozen others who have had similar dealings with Flemings.

Yes my boyfriend got to look at the car BUT the lighting was in their favor and they would not open the garage doors for better lighting when he he tried to look under the car. It drove decent on their test drive BUT the drove around the block. The mechanical issues occur once the car is warmed up. Yes he contacted Flemings their answer was he is SOL with this car. The 1 year warranty they hook you in with doesn't exist.

The point of my post is to warn others away from Flemings Ultimate Garage. Google them and look deeply. They sell a few decent cars but many more that are not what they are advertised as.
 
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