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For Sale C code in NH on ebay & website

Batgirl89

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Joined
Nov 14, 2011
Messages
546
Location
Livermore, Ca

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franklinair

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Joined
Mar 1, 2007
Messages
4,744
Nice looking CS, but $39K ? Looks like it was originally Sunlit Gold judging from the unpainted area in the trunk, and the Nugget Gold headliner. Nicely optioned except no A/C, and the interior looks great. Would expect to see a Marti Report for verification.

Neil
 

p51

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Joined
Aug 2, 2005
Messages
1,025
Location
NorCal
Should be interesting to see what the bid-ask spread is on this one...
... time to get out the popcorn
 

robert campbell

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Joined
Apr 10, 2007
Messages
4,321
Sure is pretty and I love the custom paint toughs such as the tail light panel. I bet the headliner is new and the color on purpose.

Front suspension shows original "non-greaseable" tie rod ends that look old. My bet is the front suspension is all original and will need work. Engine is clean, but wonder if it has been rebuilt along the years? My guess is no, but I could very well be wrong.

Paint looks great from the pics and wow what a bunch of them!!

Rob
 

stangfan

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Joined
Jun 12, 2012
Messages
1,842
Location
Victoria BC Canada
I wonder how correct the engine bay assembly line marks are. I notice it has the dreaded "caution fan" sticker on the shroud. :wink:
 

p51

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Aug 2, 2005
Messages
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Location
NorCal
Ebay bidding finished at $12.1K...

So bid-ask spread (rough) estimate is ~$12K - $40K.
No market here... move along, move along... :wink:
 

Don

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Aug 11, 2012
Messages
142
Impossible to say if 12.1K was a real bid since reserve was not met it could easily be a shadow bid.
 

Don

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Aug 11, 2012
Messages
142
Shadow bids (bids from the shadows) are basically the same as chandelier bids and shill bids; bids that are fabricated by the seller, sellers agent, or auctioneer to create the appearance of interest or to drive the price up.

Shadow bids fall into the category of collusion: http://guide.iacrc.org/potential-scheme-collusive-bidding/

""Complementary bids, also known as “protective,” “courtesy,” or “shadow” bids, are intended merely to give the appearance of a genuine bid..........""
 
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p51

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Aug 2, 2005
Messages
1,025
Location
NorCal
Shadow bids (bids from the shadows) are basically the same as chandelier bids and shill bids; bids that are fabricated by the seller, sellers agent, or auctioneer to create the appearance of interest or to drive the price up.

Shadow bids fall into the category of collusion: http://guide.iacrc.org/potential-scheme-collusive-bidding/

""Complementary bids, also known as “protective,” “courtesy,” or “shadow” bids, are intended merely to give the appearance of a genuine bid..........""

Got it... a shill bid. If that's the case the guy doing the shill bidding to create the appearance of interest sure did a very poor job of it... only $12.1K
 

Don

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Aug 11, 2012
Messages
142
Tough to say what is real or not on ebay these days even if it appears a car is "sold". Once ebay stopped the sellers from being able to leave bad reviews for "buyers" and stopped giving visibility to whether the sell was real (high bidders that don't pay are no longer identified or penalized unless they repeat frequently) trying to use ebay transactions to determine "market value" is pretty much useless.
 

p51

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Aug 2, 2005
Messages
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Location
NorCal
Tough to say what is real or not on ebay these days even if it appears a car is "sold". Once ebay stopped the sellers from being able to leave bad reviews for "buyers" and stopped giving visibility to whether the sell was real (high bidders that don't pay are no longer identified or penalized unless they repeat frequently) trying to use ebay transactions to determine "market value" is pretty much useless.

Hmmm... I guess I take a simplistic view of all this. When a car (or anything else for that matter) is "sold" on ebay I assume that it is likely that the person bought the car for the stated sales price. Case in point is the $15K that (I assume) batgirl paid for the Canadian S-code on ebay. Certainly there are some cases where the bidder reneges but, given that ebay prices tend to be on the low end of market, what buyer reneges on a "deal" he just got (maybe the seller does)? My guess is that most sales that do clear, clear and close for the price stated making information from ebay far from being useless.
 

Don

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Aug 11, 2012
Messages
142
Assume away but at the end of the day, without confirmation, it is still an assumption. I do take the recent 15K transaction as a valid data point only because we have confirmation here that the buyer took delivery. Without confirmation there is only assumption which no one should accept as a real data point.
 

p51

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NorCal
... Without confirmation there is only assumption which no one should accept as a real data point.

Well, likewise when I see "sold" and a price on the Barrett-Jackson website I also assume, without need for a separate confirmation, that it actually did clear at that price. Granted there are likely more fraudulent sales (fake ads) and "failures to pay" on ebay than at B-J but not so much so that it makes information from ebay sales useless in estimating prices.
 
OP
OP
Batgirl89

Batgirl89

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Nov 14, 2011
Messages
546
Location
Livermore, Ca
We paid 15k for the car. The seller added a buy it now for 15k on the last day of the auction. When we saw that, we called him, asked him a bunch of questions and then did the buy it now.

That red GT/CS in Canada that has been on ebay twice was said to be a non payer the first time. We do look at completed listings a lot on ebay and will see the same car selling several times. makes you wonder if its shadow bids from the seller or non payers.
 

Don

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Aug 11, 2012
Messages
142
Google Barrett Jackson Fraud: http://www.nastyz28.com/forum/showthread.php?t=77446
You will find many articles similar. Pay particular attention to the article I provided a link to and the part about Barrett Jackson owning many cars they bring to auction, bidding them up, and then "buying" them back.

Assume away on what you think are "actual" transaction and I will assume away that fraud allegations are true. There are plenty of confirmed transactions to come up with comps so I am not sure why anyone would want to use unconfirmed transactions unless they are looking to propagate myth.
 
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Don

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Aug 11, 2012
Messages
142
We paid 15k for the car. The seller added a buy it now for 15k on the last day of the auction. When we saw that, we called him, asked him a bunch of questions and then did the buy it now.

That red GT/CS in Canada that has been on ebay twice was said to be a non payer the first time. We do look at completed listings a lot on ebay and will see the same car selling several times. makes you wonder if its shadow bids from the seller or non payers.

You did well and found a seller that was motivated. So many cars are listed at way above what the market will bear and others, trying to sell, will look at the inflated asking prices and convince themselves and others that the inflated asking prices and in some cases the alleged and unconfirmed selling price(s) is the "market" value. Thank you for confirming that you paid 15K for your awesome car. I will take that as a real data point :grin:
 

Mosesatm

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Joined
Jan 18, 2005
Messages
9,018
Here is the Marti Report
 

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p51

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 2, 2005
Messages
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Location
NorCal
Google Barrett Jackson Fraud: http://www.nastyz28.com/forum/showthread.php?t=77446
You will find many articles similar. Pay particular attention to the article I provided a link to and the part about Barrett Jackson owning many cars they bring to auction, bidding them up, and then "buying" them back.

Assume away on what you think are "actual" transaction and I will assume away that fraud allegations are true. There are plenty of confirmed transactions to come up with comps so I am not sure why anyone would want to use unconfirmed transactions unless they are looking to propagate myth.

Thanks for the link to the article. That's very interesting. I had a much better opinion of BJ than that. Is there some source you use to confirm sale prices (aside from such things as, say, NADA)?

Regarding: "...why anyone would want to use unconfirmed transactions unless they are looking to propagate myth."
Was that directed at me personally?
 

Don

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Aug 11, 2012
Messages
142
Thanks for the link to the article. That's very interesting. I had a much better opinion of BJ than that. Is there some source you use to confirm sale prices (aside from such things as, say, NADA)?

Regarding: "...why anyone would want to use unconfirmed transactions unless they are looking to propagate myth."
Was that directed at me personally?

There are many articles and sources that expose the many schemes that auction houses have and have allegedly participated in over many years (selling through auction is a very old practice).

To be fair I encourage you to read all the comments in the article, I provide a link to, and beware that there was no prosecution in that particular case. The author retracted after BJ threatened lawsuit. But, as the commenters correctly point out, a retraction does not mean the allegations are untrue. A simple Google search on auction schemes will result in some eye opening information if you think it is all on the up and up.

As to actual, confirmed, selling prices it takes some time and some detective work is required but I have found that well established sources such as Edmunds, Hagerty, Kelly use pretty good intelligence (based on actual replacement costs as established by insurance companies) to establish value models. Other than that the best bet is to gain confirmation, such as we have on this particular car, that the reported selling price is accurate and the buyer took delivery.

Comments were not directed at you personally since I have absolutely no idea what you do with your information. I am simply making a general observation that there are a huge amount of buyers and sellers out there that try to establish fair market value from asking prices and unconfirmed sell prices.
 
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