View Full Version : Registry Question for my new book


PNewitt
03/25/2005, 08:28 PM
I have to ask--and run an idea by all of the owners of the GT/CS and '68 HCS cars.

I would like to be able to provide the owners and readers of the new Registry that I'm doing some sort of list of VINs of the CS and HCS cars--that have been authenticated by Marti Autoworks' Ford data.

1. Would you want to see a column in the registry as a checkmark that it's been OK'd by Marti?

2. Would you want me to approach Kevin Marti, and see what he'd want to provide me a list of all 3800+ CS and HCS cars' vin numbers?

3. I send Marti a list of all the cars that I have, and let him go over them and say yes or no to each VIN?

Perhaps he could provide a simple "yes or no" to owners for a small price (which if it was "yes", owners would get the whole report?)

OR...

I just do the registry listing like I always have, and we list those cars OK'd by Marti from copies of the reports sent to me or Jon (webmaster)--on this website???

Does anyone know Kevin Marti well enough to ask him (not that I can't myself, but someone may have a lead on this anyway).

Let me know what you think. I'm about to put this book together (although it will take a while), and feedback is important right now. I'll be posting more soon.

Thanks,

Paul M. Newitt
GT/CS Registrar

390cs68rcode
03/25/2005, 09:12 PM
Well he would lose business if you listed all of them all at once in your book. You would have to pay him a good amount for the business part to make sense from his side. I am all for listing all the CS's in your book by VIN.

What about some online way to check VIN's and you and or the webmaster of the site and Marti get some income from it?

Personally I think in this time and age the online way is the best and easiest for all involved.

68gt390
03/25/2005, 09:34 PM
Paul;
I say keep it simple. In my GT 390 World Registery it lists only those cars authenticated by their owners with a Marti Report showing it was a true 390 GT optioned car (no transplanted engines etc.). I say put the burden on the owners. Anyone looking at the GT 390 World Registery Book knows all cars listed are verified GT 390's. I'm sure anyone who wanted their car listed showing it was authentic wouldn't mind getting a report and I would hope most of us already have them. OR If your going to list all claimed to be GT/CS & HCS cars break them out into two groups 1. Verified by Marti Report submitted by owner and 2. Non-Certified cars.

Don ;)

PNewitt
03/25/2005, 09:43 PM
Yes. I like that idea. Two lists.

I could do a mass mailing to the registry announcing the book coming out--and asking for people to authenticate it via Marti, and then send me a copy before it it printed.

I also like the internet way of doing it, too. That is more up to date, and accessable.

"IF" people do see that their car is "real" by a VIN OK'd by Marti, I would think that those owners would want to buy the full report.

I'll e-mail him and ask just what he and I can do about this.

But the bottom line is that the owner has to provide "burden of proof".

Thanks--you guys are quick!

Paul N.

68sunlitgold
03/26/2005, 12:45 AM
Paul,
I asked Kevin about 2 years ago with that very question. I first asked him about doing like SAAC and listing all VIN # with those not known of will be listed as "missing". He was not real anxious about giving out all the numbers becuase of the chance to make clones by getting "lost" titles (there are companies taht will produce new titles for lost ones). I did mention to him about giving the list to you and he did say he could but without know what we wanted he could not quote me a price. There is a post in the archives somewhere about it.

But I do agree with Don that those that want to be listed in the "confirmed" section will no doubt send a Marti report to you.

Doug

rvrtrash
03/26/2005, 12:57 AM
I also think the verified and unverified lists or columns is a good idea. As to the Marti questions, I just emailed him asking if he knew how many CS's went to Hawaii, as mine did and he wrote back saying he charges $80.00 an hour to research any info. Ouch! Needless to say, as far as I'm concerned it's just mine and the other two you have listed. By the way, a copy of my report went out to you Mon. You should have it by now.
Steve

Mustanglvr
03/26/2005, 02:39 AM
My car was in the 1988 registry under the former owners name. Could mine have been a confirmed GT/CS back then?
Rhonda

19HCS68
03/26/2005, 04:41 AM
Paul,

Do you need the car pic and info snail mailed or can I send electronic copies by e-mail?

Gary

nfrntau
03/26/2005, 07:22 AM
I like the idea of stating if the car is confirmed or not. I'm not too hip on two different lists. I think it would be better to have just one list with a check box, statement or something indicating confirmed GT/CS's.
For those searching for a specific VIN number they would only be looking at one list. For those searching confirmed or not, same, all in one fell swoop.

case12
03/26/2005, 09:42 AM
Here is my idea which is a grouping of the others:

1. Have the registry (book and online) only include Marti confirmed (or other documented evidence - window sticker, etc) to VIN. Have the owners provide the evidence.

2. For those vehicles already in the registry (book and current online), have Kevin run the VIN for the CS/HCS option. I would be willing to pitch in $ to help with this.

3. For the online registry (which would also require #1 above to be supplied after a certain date) - Have a way for users to request the online registry with their VIN to determine if they are in the registry. (seems like this is a commonly asked question - "Is the car in the registry?").

Casey

C160223
03/26/2005, 10:15 AM
Hi
I have to agree with 68gt390 to keep it simple and correct. List only verfied GT/CS & HCS in the registry. Have current owners without Marti reports get verification before getting into the registry. Inform them via an artcile in Ford magazines, through Ford and Mustang club newsletters and post in different Ford forums.

hookedtrout
03/26/2005, 10:46 AM
Hi
I have to agree with 68gt390 to keep it simple and correct. List only verfied GT/CS & HCS in the registry.


I would have to dissagree, my car has been listed in every registry thus far. Personally I don't have a Marti report, I've known this car it's entire life, I know it's an authentic GT/CS why would I want to spend money on a report to tell me what I already know. If I had the intention to sell the car I may look at getting a Marti report for the buyers piece of mind.

If it means my car won't be in this listing so be it. But I think the Marti report is an unneccesary waste of money unless a buyer wants authentication for purchase and I have no intention of selling the car therefore I have no intention of getting a report to tell me something I already know. I'd rather spend the $'s on the car itself.

Hook

CJ
03/26/2005, 10:51 AM
Paul as an orginial owner I have to go along with point #1 that you made. Have your two columns that show that particular VIN in question was either checked by Marti Works or not. I have my orginal documents when I purchased my GT/CS and if I was going to sell it and the buyer wanted to confirm it then he can pay the tab for the confirmation. I don't need Marti Works to tell me what I already no.

hookedtrout
03/26/2005, 11:58 AM
Paul as an orginial owner I have to go along with point #1 that you made. Have your two columns that show that particular VIN in question was either checked by Marti Works or not. I have my orginal documents when I purchased my GT/CS and if I was going to sell it and the buyer wanted to confirm it then he can pay the tab for the confirmation. I don't need Marti Works to tell me what I already no.


Wow, glad there's two of us.

Hook

quicknick
03/26/2005, 12:08 PM
I want to go on record as saying I like Casey's idea.
Lets make it as easy and convenient for Paul as we can since this is going to be a huge undertaking for him.
I would have no problem doing any of the leg work to prove my cars authenticity.(i.e. mailing or e mailing my documentation)
And I agree that all authentic cars in the regestry should be earmarked as such.

hookedtrout
03/26/2005, 02:12 PM
And I agree that all authentic cars in the regestry should be earmarked as such.


So I guess based on that comment I would have to ask what exactly makes a car authentic? If I don't have a Marti report does that make my car NOT AUTHENTIC? :o I think not. ::)

A better way to word it might be that all cars given the Marti touch should be earmarked as such. ;)

Hook

case12
03/26/2005, 04:11 PM
The Marti Report doesnt have to be the only way to show authenticity for the registry. One could also provide Paul with a window sticker, or invoice or some other way to authenticate the vehicle. If none of those other things are available, the basic Marti report is only $17 - less than dinner for two at Applebees. Casey

68MustangHCS
03/26/2005, 04:24 PM
My opinion is just one column with a check mark for a documented car and blank for cars that the owners have not provided any sort of documentation. If your the third or more owner, you may not know unless documentation came with the car. I'm the third owner of my car, the person I purchased the car from knows the car is authentic because he purchased it from the original owner. For piece of mind, I ordered the Marti report.

Mustanglvr
03/26/2005, 04:52 PM
People can say anything they want about a car. I guess if you know the person well enough to trust them or you are the original owner and you know for yourself, than its ok. The Marti report does give piece of mind but could`nt someone easily duplicate one and put in the words California Special? ???

Rhonda

C160223
03/26/2005, 06:34 PM
The Marti Report doesnt have to be the only way to show authenticity for the registry.

Exactly! In my last post, I wasn't implying that all cars in the registry should have a "Marti" report. If you can supply an original window sticker, build sheet or bill of sale, that's even better than a Marti report! With alot of vehicle scams and fakes(clones) around, I still think having "proof" of authenticity should be a requirement for the registry. Now, if you don't have the original Ford paperwork, the "proof" comes from a Marti report.

PNewitt
03/26/2005, 07:48 PM
I think what is coming together here is a common thought about how to do the registry. The Shelby Club (SAAC) over the years has been dilligent and lucky to find the Shelby paper trails for (pretty much) ALL of the '65-'70 Shelbys , Cobras and GT-40. That type of paper trail just isn't possible for the GT/CS, since it requires some sort of invoice listing, either from Ford or as a Marti Report.

I totally agree with those who are original owners that a copy of the original paperwork is just fine for authenticity (or second, third, etc., owners with the same paperwork in hand). I didn't mean to imply that a Marti Report was the only way to do this.

I will list as many GT/CS and '68 HCS cars (including '66 and '67 HCS cars is another issue, and worth discussing later) as possible, including those that are already in the GT/CS Registry since 1988. It's clear that so many owners and potential buyers really want to know "is it real?". I have explained the parameters in both data and parts details how to really narrow it down, but if you don't have any Ford paperwork, and you are still curious, I can't see why spending the minimum $17 to Marti to be sure would be a problem.

So... I will list the cars as I have. I will have a column that will indicate if the owner has the original paperwork (i.e. invoice) that states "California Special Option", AND/OR a copy of the Marti Report. Having these items marked next to particular cars does NOT mean that those cars without this info as "less authentic"; it just provides additional authenticity information to the owner, reader, or potential buyer.

I will mail out either post cards or letters this late spring to everyone in the registry (about 800) that this is what is being done, and it's their choice what to do. I'll include Marti's address, etc. to help them out.

After all these years, I'd say that (in my observation) that "fake" GT/CS cars are very few, and those done like that are usually poorly "faked". Unless these cars suddenly hit $40K+, I can't see anyone going to a whole lot of trouble to fake one. Besides, with "everyone" (that's you--the "GT/CS Police") out there & so aware of what to look for--and point out "fakes", I think we're fairly secure in knowing. Before the advent of the Marti Report, I was pretty vigilant in looking out for cars that were "questionable" for the registry.

I 'm not interested n spending $$$ having Marti provide information (@$80/hr.), since it could cost a small fortune. "IF" this information were to become available, it might better be presented on this website--which would probably be the best place to have it anyway (right Jon?).

Paul N.

jc68gtcs
03/26/2005, 09:20 PM
One list makes the most sense to me.. I'm new to this and the Marti report while it does seem important, I have to ask is it really one guy that has all of the control over determining who's car is authentic and who's isn't. Please tell me there's more to this than just one guy. The truck theory comes to mind.

Sure would be nice if the Registry was all about authentic cars ONLY, regardless of how they got authenticated. As in the case of the original owners, I'm sure that they could provide their own proof that their cars are the real deal..

nfrntau
03/26/2005, 09:22 PM
I haven't heard much regarding the "Ford" report. It's free and also tells us the answer to this key question. Is it authentic? I called Ford and asked for one. The guy I spoke to was very helpful and about 6 weeks later it came in the mail. It does differ from Marti on the built date by one day but they both agree that I have an actual GT/CS. Is the Ford report not verification also?
Am I misinterpreting this?

PNewitt
03/26/2005, 09:30 PM
I totally agree--very good point.

I will include in the registry, three columns that can be checked:

1. Original Invoice
2. Ford Report
3. Marti Report

One to all three can be checked, depending what I get in the mail.

More on those details ASAP.

Paul N.

jc68gtcs
03/26/2005, 09:57 PM
I like that, multiple levels of verification.

68MustangHCS
03/26/2005, 10:36 PM
I personally don't think it matters what the verification is, only that it has been documented. 3 columns seems like it might take up too much space. I personally believe that a registry should only accept authenticated cars, owners who don't want to provide the authentication shouldn't be included. Why register something that isn't authentic? Just a question to ponder. I'm not trying to ruffel any feathers, but I would think a registry would be real authentic cars only. If an owner doesn't want to provide the information even if it is clear in their mind that it is authentic, then the owner opts not to be included, simple. I wouldn't want to purchase a registry book knowing that some of the cars in the book arn't authenticated and could be clones. If someone doesn't have documentation, and is too cheap to spend $17 then thats their choice. I just think if it's going to be done, for my moneys worth and everyone elses, it should be done right with no exceptions.

PNewitt
03/26/2005, 11:18 PM
I have always believed in making this whole GT/CS REGISTRY thing as something for enthusiasts. If you could see some of my mail from over the years, you'd agree that this is not about making this an "elitist" group of cars and owners. This is not an Aston Martin or Lotus Super-Seven Registry.

My intent is to provide information and enthusuasm for owners and others who are into these cars. The Registry is just one part of my book. There are many owners who are appreciative of what I have done, and I'm not about to exclude them just because they don't necessairily have the exact paperwork. Besides--I think this "fakes" estimate is way over stated. We have the resources--and lots of owners out there to "expose" misrepresentation, if those owners try to do that.

I don't mislead anyone in my books when it comes to what these cars are. I include disclaimers to say that these cars are based on info sent to me. The burden of proof of authenticity is on the owner--especially during a sale, or car show. I never say that just because a car is in the registry that it is "real".

I would like to know what other Mustang registries do for "authenticity" if the limited edition information is not reflected in the VIN or door tag (like Twister Special, Ski Country, etc..)

Paul N.

68sunlitgold
03/26/2005, 11:25 PM
jc68gtcs,
You asked the question about who is Kevin Marti and why is his report so important and why does he have control over determining if a GT/CS is real. Well Kevin was the fortunate one to think how he could use actual Ford magnetic data tape that contains actual Vehicle Order information to provide individuals with vehicle data. He is licensed by Ford to provide this info.

To answer nfrntau's question about CAC info, I agree it is a great "Free" source of info, however I have 3 cars and none of the CAC reports reflect what was actually on the car. So getting back to the Marti report, it is the only source to give you actual info on a car, that is not so say a CAC will not have the "California Option" on it but it may not and your car could be one.

Now I agree with hookedtrout that if a owner has the original paperwork from the car, why spend money to prove it.

Paul, why not just have one column stating "confirmed" which can be done by any of the three options.

Doug

PNewitt
03/26/2005, 11:33 PM
I could say confirmed--but that could be too vague, and I'd be getting all kinds of questions.

Doing a registry is a lot of very tedious work. Not every limited edition Mustang group does one. Mine has been one of the more detailed. Most just have the name and VIN, and door tag info. The 1996 book took me 6 months to enter all the data from those registry forms.

Let me think this one over. I would like to basically publish what owners send me, but to not mislead anyone. But this type of car is difficult. If they only had put the GT/CS option in the VIN, life would be a lot easier at this end.

Paul N.

rvrtrash
03/27/2005, 12:45 AM
First, I agree with Doug on the Ford report. It's probably hit or miss. My VIN is one unit off of a car in the '96 registry and my Ford report listed red strips but didn't come right out and say California Special. Second, to Paul N., if you're using Excel to enter your data-or something you can convert Excel into-and you wanted to send me copies of some of what you have, I would be happy to do some data entry, put it on a CD and mail it back to you, just to help out.
Steve

hookedtrout
03/27/2005, 08:53 AM
My intent is to provide information and enthusuasm for owners and others who are into these cars. The Registry is just one part of my book. There are many owners who are appreciative of what I have done, and I'm not about to exclude them just because they don't necessairily have the exact paperwork. Besides--I think this "fakes" estimate is way over stated. We have the resources--and lots of owners out there to "expose" misrepresentation, if those owners try to do that.

Paul N.



Thanks Paul. I've been a member of this web site for many many years, my car has been in every registry. I have one of each of your books purchased in advance of printing and spent countless hours watching the mail box for them to show up, especially the first one. I have watched this site grow from a small group of GT/CS owners that just loved being together with other owners to a large group with a lot of new ideas. Not that new is bad nor is change but we all have and deal with issues on our own level of importance.

I know my car is authentic and as I have said many times before. Owning my GT/CS has nothing to do with money or in your face I have one you don't issues. I love the fun of having it out and about and the conversations that go along with it. I love talking the GT/CS talk here on the web and when I do it's because I've had an intimate relationship with my GT/CS for well over 20 years and Paul has taught me what I couldn't figure out. Shoving a Marti report in someones face to prove a point is pointless to me. I don't care if it's 50 cents, it has nothing to do with the money or the paper. It has to do with the love of the car. I don't care if I drive it around and people think it's a fake something or other. Life isn't about being better, having more or proving anything to anyone (to me). I have the car, it's real, I know it's real I've known every owner of the car, I don't have the original paper work and I could care less that I don't. Just as long as I have the car, I can go out and drive the car, and I can enjoy it. If people want to argue the cars authenticity with me it's a waste of my time, time that could be spent driving the car and enjoying it so move out from in front of the car if you want to argue about it cuzz I'm cruising.

And I can't say enough how appreciative I am of what you have done Paul. All of my indepth GT/CS education has been through you. Particularly in the early 80's when I purchased the car.

Thanks again.

Hook

Andrew
03/27/2005, 09:07 AM
Well said my friend. From "California Corral" until the new book, Paul has carried us with his knowkedge. And to think I bought the car to travel to college in.

hookedtrout
03/27/2005, 09:28 AM
Well said my friend. From "California Corral" until the new book, Paul has carried us with his knowkedge. And to think I bought the car to travel to college in.


I had a little different plan when I bought mine and it served it's purpose well. ;) My Special was actually my second Mustang. My first car purchased at the young age of 14 was a 65 Mustang sold originally at John E Nois Ford somewhere in California, I bought it in San Clemente, California and still have the black plates from that car somewhere. I was the second owner of that car. I've had Mustang running in my veins for many a year and giving the girls a ride in my Mustang was the highlight of it all. I still give the girls a ride only now the girls are my Wife and my daughter. ;D

Hook

PNewitt
03/27/2005, 11:56 AM
I appreciate the comments by Hook and others that support what I have done for owners of the GT/CS and the '68 HCS. I'll try to not take the complements and run with them TOO much, except to say what this is all about--for me and for those who own these cars.

When I started this in 1985, I was only into researching the GT/CS, and I started a GT/CS SURVEY with a form to fill out, sent to hundreds of people. In doing this, I quickly found a true appreciation for the car. It became MORE than just a dressed up '68 Mustang coupe, and it became MORE than a Shelby-inspired limited edition. I saw a lot of real affection expressed for this car from so many letters that I got back in the mail (since 1985).

The CS is a styling option, and it had the luck of using Shelby parts, made in the same factory (A.O. Smith). The CS is not necessairily a Mustang that was sold based only on an "engine", like the Mach 1, Boss 302,351,429, or Shelby GT-500. Because of it's root as a styling and marketing vehicle, the GT/CS is about style and the California feeling and spirit. That is why it has become so intensly popular with it's owners. The attraction the the CS is in it's uniqueness. A coupe with Shelby parts made in a Ford factory is just sooo radical, but cool to many who just become aware of it. What makes it even more appealing is the potential to upgrade the engine, transmission, and other parts. That potential is greater than having a "regular" '68 Mustang coupe.

So, this is what it's about. Hook's comments express the heart of what this is all about. I couldn't have put it better myself. This new book will have a lot of new things with re-edited information, and a few surprises. The next registry book will spend more time on restoration and how-to fix or find something, than on whether each and every car is "real" or not. I'm not playing naive by saying that, but I know by reading these boards that there is a greater need for repair and restoration information--and concours info, too.

Paul N.

68MustangHCS
03/27/2005, 12:04 PM
I never say that just because a car is in the registry that it is "real".

Paul N.



Paul and everyone else,

I see all of your points of view, and I appreciate it. We don't own $100,000 cars here and realize that. Some of us do own special unique cars and some don't. It took a lot people here hard work, lots of leg work to find their dream cars and arrange their purchases, and get them documented.

The way I see this registry and the attitude is enthusiasm, which is all good. But from the point of view I am getting from the quote above and from some others leaves me with this question:

Basically, if I am a Mustang enthusiast, and I own a 68 coupe, I can just register my car here regardless if it is real or not? Is that the correct representation of this registry? If so then this place should be open to all cars for registration. Am I off base here?

I see this a place where everyone can come and be members or observers regardless if they have a special car or not, and if they do have a special car, then register it, if not there are other options like posting pictures, chat, get great ideas, leads, camaraderie, buy parts, buy your dream car, or build your dream car.

This registry belongs to the members of it, and it should be their choice as to the way the cars should be registered, and whether it should allow authentic cars or all cars.

I don't see this as a place to make a profit selling books that may or may not contain correct information. The author of the book has a responsibility to list the most correct and accurate information possible if it is to be an authoritative document. Who wants to invest in a book that contains bogus information or statistics?

I am only expressing my opinion and hope others will see my point of view and either agree or disagree with it.

I would guess that if you polled the members, the majority of registry owners would want only authentic cars in the registry, if not then say its open to all cars. I will start a thread and see how it goes.

Steve K.
:)

C160223
03/27/2005, 12:15 PM
Hi Hook

My post is not intented to attack you or to start a war, but I think you are missing the point. It's not that no one thinks your car is not real or you don't want to spend the money for a report. The report is solely for documentation in the registry, so Paul has a record of verified cars. The Ford CAC report is only a phone call away, if you don't care for documentation about your car, send the original copy directly to Paul. If you don't have the time to make a call, email me your VIN, and I'll do it for you and send it to Paul.

Andrew
03/27/2005, 01:15 PM
Well said my friend. From "California Corral" until the new book, Paul has carried us with his knowkedge. And to think I bought the car to travel to college in.


I had a little different plan when I bought mine and it served it's purpose well. ;) My Special was actually my second Mustang. My first car purchased at the young age of 14 was a 65 Mustang sold originally at John E Nois Ford somewhere in California, I bought it in San Clemente, California and still have the black plates from that car somewhere. I was the second owner of that car. I've had Mustang running in my veins for many a year and giving the girls a ride in my Mustang was the highlight of it all. I still give the girls a ride only now the girls are my Wife and my daughter. ;D

Hook

My plan was to replace the 68 Sprint that was my first car bought in 1983. I regretted it so much, I saved up to buy another 68 but swore in would not come from the Northeast, the GT/CS showed up in 1987 and was worth the wait. No one coudl understand why I bought a car that could only be used 6-7 months out of the year but I was willing to walk in the winters. Sometimes I can't believe I had not sold this car over the years

admin
03/27/2005, 01:38 PM
My $.02

I think the new Registry book should be put together much the same as the previous ones. I don't think Paul should exclude cars whos owners have not "proven" them to be authentic. He won't even be able to get in touch with everyone who has submitted a car, even if he wanted to.

Adding an extra column to show those that have submitted that info is a great idea and I think should satisfy those that want to see only "authenticated" cars.

The Registry has been created and is maintained for all enthusiasts, but it doesn't belong to us. It belongs to Paul. He's who put all the time, research and effort into producing it and he's who maintains it. Ultimately it's his decision on how to format and present the info in his books.

PNewitt
03/27/2005, 02:14 PM
Here is the bottom line.

I would love to send a letter with all my VINs to Marti, and say: "authenticate these GT/CS cars for my next book".

That would cost me something like 800 x $4, or more. or $3K or more--at least. And as new cars show up, am I supposed to keep doing this at my own expense?

The "proof" lies with the owner. We don't have access to a Shelby paperwork like SAAC, and there is NO specific letter or number in the VIN or Door tag saying "GT/CS", like a Boss or Mach 1.

I'll do my best to do "something" for the purists in the registry, but I'm not going to go out of my way to satisfy anyone in particular--when this is something owners should deal with individually (if they choose to do so), and there are outside ways of seeking this type of information.

Paul.

hookedtrout
03/27/2005, 02:23 PM
I would guess that if you polled the members, the majority of registry owners would want only authentic cars in the registry, if not then say its open to all cars. I will start a thread and see how it goes.

Steve K.
:)
[quote]

Steve, in all honesty do you really care whether my car is authentic or not, really, deep down what does MY CAR mean to you?

Other than the friendship that we have the potential to develop here because we own like cars I don't think my car does or should mean anything to you.

I've purchased each of Pauls books and I've spent countless hours looking at the pictures and reading the list of cars in the books and not once did I question anyone's honesty on putting their car in the book. Each and every thought I had was good, I looked and read about the cars that needed restored and dreamed of the fun they would have and the time that it offered them to spend with their family or kids on the project, I read about the concours type cars and dreamed about the possibility that when my nose quit running that I might take my car to that level, the book offered me a lot of dreams and I hope it offers others the same.

Again I will support Pauls decision first and if his decision is to go with a majority and the majority wants the list to be some elitist group then I will respect that and kindly accept that I won't be on the list, not because I think someone is wrong and I'm right simply because it isn't what it's all about to me. I'll still buy one of Pauls books and add to my collection for the information aspect but there will probably be a lot less dreaming going on when I get to the list of cars and read through it.

P.S. I'll refrain from casting my vote on any polls on the topic, you know where I stand. This book is Pauls dream and he made the dream come true, it has nothing to do with anything I might try to dictate.

Hook

hookedtrout
03/27/2005, 02:43 PM
Hi Hook

My post is not intented to attack you or to start a war, but I think you are missing the point. It's not that no one thinks your car is not real or you don't want to spend the money for a report. The report is solely for documentation in the registry, so Paul has a record of verified cars. The Ford CAC report is only a phone call away, if you don't care for documentation about your car, send the original copy directly to Paul. If you don't have the time to make a call, email me your VIN, and I'll do it for you and send it to Paul.




The greatest thing about life to me is the freedom of expression and interest that it offers me, and friend let me tell you this, I respect your comments, do not take them as an attack, but your point and my point are two different points and I'm not missing mine nor are you missing yours. I think it's one of those agree to disagree issues.

I'm simply not traveling the road of competition based on my car. I will never be in the GT/CS or Mustang car show circuit. No interest, I will never see my car to a concours restoration, no interest, gotta drive it, I will never spend time or money to authenticate, prove, list, elitite, advance, or anything on my car, not due to lack of money, oh no I'm a money waster just ask my wife. Don't get me wrong, I have the utmost respect for those that take the time and pride to take their car back to the perfect state of birth. I simply wouldn't enjoy it, there was a time that I may have but age has changed my point of view, life is short and fragile and the competative world of shows and things like that aren't worth it to me. My personal opinion is that what started out many moons ago as a car show has turned into a money show. I'll show my car at the local car show and shine for the fun of it and I'll attend the car shows to see the perfect specimens but I will never let it consume me to the point that I HAVE TO DO WHAT IT TAKES TO BE FIRST or BEST. I just want to enjoy it while I'm here in hopes that others do as well and making the perfect car or proving it to others isn't on the list of enjoyment to me.

I accept that it is for others and I'll respect that, and I would have probably kept out of this conversation entirely if it weren't for the fact that I've loved being in Paul's book and a part of this world from it's beggining stages, not from a braggarts stand point, I've never even shown the books to anyone else, I'll eventually share them with my son as the car will someday be his for now they sit on my shelf and I get them down and read occassionaly and being a part of this history from the begining is very special to me as is my car.

Pretty simple to me, complex for others and I understand and accept that, but I'm not going down without at least expressing my feelings.

Thanks for listening, I will support where ever we go.

Hook

390cs68rcode
03/27/2005, 03:04 PM
68mustanghcs wrote

This registry belongs to the members of it, and it should be their choice as to the way the cars should be registered, and whether it should allow authentic cars or all cars.


if you are talking about Paul's book then you are dead wrong, it is HIS registry and book and HE can format anyway he wants. You just don't have to like it or buy it.

my .02

rvrtrash
03/27/2005, 03:21 PM
I'll post one last time and then I'm done. I agree with Hook on a lot of stuff. Restoring cars is my hobby, not something I make money at. Look at my tag line. I can't seem to bring myself to sell any of them. I'm just a blue collar working stiff like many here and scratch for every penny to do what I love. I restore them as nice drivers but am not about to invest $50-100K in a trailer queen. I got the Marti report and sent it to Paul because I didn't know the cars full history and who knows if Marti will keep doing this forever or how many books Paul will put out. By the way, the Registry is his to do with as he pleases and the choice to put your car in or not or buy the book or not is yours. Seems pretty simple to me but then again, I'm a simple kind of guy. I'm sorry I started the SAAC poll and got that whole thing going. At this point I think if someone wants to go that route they should join SAAC on their own and work from within to get their car recognized. I live in the middle of nowhere, figuratively speaking, and would probably never attend a meeting, show, race, whatever because I'd need to take two weeks off work to get there and back. I've probably said more than enough so I'll stop ranting. From now on I'll try to remember to just concern myself with asking for technical help or giving it as the case may be.
Steve

Mosesatm
03/27/2005, 03:41 PM
It seems to me that Kevin Marti has created a report that is no longer optional. The first question everyone on the board asks is whether or not someone has a Marti Report. I can envision a day (probably in the very near future) that original Ford sales documents, build sheets, etc. won't be enough to satisfy prospecive buyers unless they are backed up by Kevin's report. Of course his report is based solely on the VIN which is a little scary.

quicknick
03/27/2005, 03:58 PM
I think it's time for a group hug.

68MustangHCS
03/27/2005, 04:47 PM
I personally don't think it matters what the verification is, only that it has been documented. I personally believe that a registry should only accept authenticated cars, owners who don't want to provide the authentication shouldn't be included. Why register something that isn't authentic? Just a question to ponder. I'm not trying to ruffel any feathers, but I would think a registry would be real authentic cars only.


This quote above is only my opinion. I should have posted more of a disclaimer....ha

Everyone is entitled to an opinion, I was trying to help.

I still think that if your going to publish a registry, the information should be accurate, documented, and everymember giving proper authorization or consent. Those people in the older issues should follow the same guidelines and resubmit their information.

Everything documented should be accurate and have written permission.

I know Paul agrees with this to some degree: Whenever someone uses his work or quotes his words without his permission it bothers him, and he expresses his displeasure in these columns.

If the owners want their information published again, Paul should have their permission.

I'm not an elitist, If my car is to be listed as an authentic car, it should be accuarte, documented in any way acceptable to the approval of this membership.

There seems to be few sour grapes in every group, and a few that are unwilling for change, and many that like to go with the flow. I sort have gotten the impression If your new to this group, you get jumped on by some of the old guard. Everyone should respect new opinions and welcome them here.

This is a place for contributions. I admit I may have given some wrong impressions, but if you read my first post, it was only my opinion, and was an attempt to help.

This thread was started by Paul looking for opionions on how "WE" want him to use "OUR" information and collect it.

:D

admin
03/27/2005, 06:38 PM
Hopefully no one took your posts as anything other than opinion. Just like hopefully you didn't take any of the responses as anything other than differing opinions.

That's what 99% of every post on this forum is, which is great. The point is to share ideas and opinions, so I don't think you needed a disclaimer. :)

hookedtrout
03/27/2005, 07:08 PM
I think it's time for a group hug.



I'm all for that :D

This is a great group offering a lot and it's my hope that we can grow together and as we have growing pains we can look at all side of the issue by debating them a bit and showing respect for all sides and during that growth never lose sight of what it was originally all about. Too many things in life lose the original intent in trying to better the cause. It's about all of us, not a select group among us.

Hook

nfrntau
03/27/2005, 08:07 PM
LOL Nick!

case12
03/28/2005, 08:42 AM
I'm sorry I started the SAAC poll and got that whole thing going. At this point I think if someone wants to go that route they should join SAAC on their own and work from within to get their car recognized. Steve


Steve, don't be sorry for starting the poll. I didnt make it a secret that I supported the idea of having GT/CS become a registry or part of SAAC. I appreciate your joining me in asking others what they thought. That is what makes us all a family on this site - being able to ask questions and respectfully listen to the opinions. Some voiced opinions not to join SAAC. That is ok - we all have our reasons for why we enjoy our cars.

The same is true for Paul's registry. The individuals of the group are expressing opinion.

However, on both of these issues Paul is the guru (or father) of the group and makes the final call. I told him that I support his decision on the GT/CS joining SAAC in a separate email to him.

Raising new ideas, questions, polls should always be ok for the group, but in the end we should leave it to Paul to decide - for as long as he chooses to be the guru - I (we) have much respect for Paul, his experience and his history with this car.

BTW, I decided to join SAAC on my own ($47) and there is a lot of really neat information. Casey

tnobles
03/28/2005, 06:28 PM
I guess I'm on the fence as it relates to this one; however, I thought I had seen in your book that the GT/CS did not have unique VIN's; they just pulled a car off the line and made it into a GT/CS. If this is the case, how is the car verified? I have gotten that free report from Ford but if I recal correctly it doesn't mention anything about a GT/CS.
I have known mine since 1977 and have no reason to believe it 's not a real GT/CS so I'm like the reader that said why pay for something that I already know. I don't have a lot of extra money to fix up things on the vehicle much less ordering reports.
One other thing: what's the date of your current registry? Thanks.

Mustanglvr
03/28/2005, 06:48 PM
Could`nt a Marti Report be easily faked?

Rhonda

deestix
03/28/2005, 07:02 PM
Paul,
I just signed on and read most of these 4 pages of posts. One question which I have not seen asked yet: My car, bought by me in 2003, is not in either registry book. I sent you registry info for my car last year. I also have a Marti report, which I did NOT send. What is the best way to send you the Marti report? Will you be asking all of us who recently joined the registry for that documentation? And thanks for all you are doing for us. BTW, I think that only authenticated cars should be in the registry.

68sunlitgold
03/29/2005, 04:45 AM
deestix,
Paul posted this on the other thread:

You can send the registry info to this website, and I'll get it though them, or send it directly to me at:

Paul M. Newitt
PO Box 2245
Davis, CA 95617

Include your VIN, Door plate info, any options, and other notes of interest--and include a photo of your car.

And--if you have an original invoice, a "Ford Report", or Marti Report", send a copy of that, too.

Paul.

Doug

PNewitt
03/29/2005, 07:51 PM
As akward as this is, I think I owe you an explaination (and if you don't know what this is about--"ignorance is bliss").

Message boards "are a dangerous place", because the message is immediate for all to read; good, bad and indifferent. It's a place for reflection of character, and, boy! I sure "was a character" threatening to "shred the registry". Oh! The Drama! <rolling eyes>

I won't bore you with all the personal details, but a comment (which doesn't really matter) put me over the top. I had to deal with a serious family problem, and the stress was too much. I've also been working on a 200 page Model RR book for the past two years--at 12-14 hour days, often including weekends (on a vow of poverty to write it). It's done now, but it has taken a toll on me (somebody send me to Disneyland!).

So...the idea of jumping right into another book, and then getting "ideas way beyond my level of acceptance"; I guess is my own fault for asking for more democracy than I had hoped for (that'll teach me. I'll keep my yap shut from now on).

I looked at a registry form I got in the mail last week, with a photo of a CS with two small girls in their Sunday best standing in front of Daddy's car. That did it. What was I thinking? I have to do this book.

But--there will be some conditions and guidelines that I'll set, since it will be my book. I WILL include as many cars that are presented to me as GT/CS or HCS cars, with or without "authentication" (Marti Report, etc.). I will indicate if I was sent copies of those type of documents in the registry listing. The reason why is because this has always been an enthusiast book first, and registry second. IF there was something in the VIN code or door code, there would be no question, but we're in a pickle here from a data point of view--SO! --Owners can and should bear the responsibility of proof--at their choice. People need to realize that a VIN and photo of their CS is really NOT a guarantee of anything--except what people have sent me. I would like to also point out that the "clone/fake problem" is not as bad as you might think, and they are easy to find.

I need to get some things in order here--and get my "other book" to press and to the market in the next several weeks. There will be some background research that I need to do--and I need to contact SAAC, and Marti AutoWorks, to find out what they can do for the book.

I'll be scarce "here" for a while, but send me your car's info--and anything of importance. I'll keep an eye on you guys (and gal) in the meantime.

Paul.

BTW--those Green Hornet photos are by Martin Euler--the person who restored it.

P.S. --Bob--I got the stack of cards for the Registry in the mail today. Next time--you'll send a CD with this kinda data--right??

Mosesatm
03/30/2005, 08:44 AM
Paul, as much as we hate to accept it each of us is allowed only 24 hours per day. I hope I can speak for the rest of the members of this board and say that if you are exceeding your daily allotment of hours and need to borrow some of ours feel free to ask. We all have computers so I'm sure there is some task we can take off your shoulders. Maybe it's scanning pictures, or putting information into Excel or Access, or whatever. If you think it's something we can do we're here.

PNewitt
03/30/2005, 07:51 PM
Gosh--thanks Moses for the offer. You mean there ISN'T 27 hours in a day? LOL Several folks have e-mailed me in support. Many thanks to you all!!

I think I got the point about the "need" for authentication. I understand how to some of you that is very important. I belong to SAAC, and their HUGE registry book has cars numbered with all kinds of info, and you can bet every car is authenticated. I am well aware of how that is done.

I would like nothing more than to have a list of VINs of ALL the GT/CS and HCS cars made--but that would take a small miracle, and/or a wad of cash to get. The potential problem is if I printed that--and there was a mistake, and someone lost money on a sale based on that kind of "wrong" info in my book, then I have a problem.

By presenting information provided BY owners--it places the "burden of proof" ON the owner(s). I don't like people who pass off fakes as real--as much as anyone else, if not more. But I don't have the resources to do an "authentic" list beyond what I get in the mail as copies of invoices, Marti reports, etc.

The book will have outlined how to spot a "fake". As expressed here before--we DO have recourse through a Marti Report, and other paperwork. I'll do my best to make everyone satisfied about this. I still have some tricks up me sleeve in the research department.

I believe we've exhausted this subject (right?).

Paul N.