Which marchals are correct?

I have some questions to ask about the 653/656 issue. My car was all original when i purchased it. It came with the original marchal 653's. There are no markings on the top of the light and the bulb is the smaller round type with 2 pins( twist type).I just purchased a spare set that looks the same,are 653's , but have a larger bulb. Will these three pin,12 volt lights work ok? They only have one wire coming out and the other is grounded to the reflector. Could ford have received a large order of marchals that some were 653's and some 656's? Does anyone have the same lights on their car like i have on mine? thanks rich

ponyboy said:

I have some questions to ask about the 653/656 issue. My car was all original when i purchased it. It came with the original marchal 653's. There are no markings on the top of the light and the bulb is the smaller round type with 2 pins( twist type).I just purchased a spare set that looks the same,are 653's , but have a larger bulb. Will these three pin,12 volt lights work ok? They only have one wire coming out and the other is grounded to the reflector. Could ford have received a large order of marchals that some were 653's and some 656's? Does anyone have the same lights on their car like i have on mine? thanks rich

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It is my understanding that only the 656's were used on the GT/CS cars. The 653's may have been used on some Shelby's. I have a set of 653 reflector's but, have them mounted in my 656 housings. As for the wiring I beleive you will have to have them rewired in order for them to work properly with the GT wiring harness. Ford originally used a 2 wire set-up with 2 mail plugs so you'll need to use a splicer for each light in order for them to fit the GT harness. Some one else here on the site may be able to furnish more info.

Don

656's are correct

The 656's are the correct units, but you cannot tell the difference between the 656's and the 653's unless you are within about 8 inches of the lights. As I understand it, the number (656 or 653) is "raised" in the glass of the lens, with the word "fantastik". I think 653's are used because they are the same shape, form and factor other than wiring, and are more available (but still as scarce as anything!!!) than the 656's.

Please advise if I am wrong, but I don't think so based on conversations here with more senior/knowledgeable members.:wink:

Robert

Rich;
Look at the following thread posted here on the site. It may help to answer your question.

http://californiaspecial.com/forums/t2906-marchal-653-vs-656-fog-lights.html

On my housings, the black ground wire inside the casing has been clipped and a duel feed wire is used with 2 mail plugs. As I stated earlier you will need to use a splicer on each light in order to get it to work with the GT harness. These splicers can be obtained from Pete Geisler at Orlando Mustang. You may even be able to get the correct wiring set-up also since Pete refubishes these lights.

http://orlandomustang.com/restoration.html

Don

hey guys, thanks for the info. i believe my marchals are the original correct lights , but my lens dont say 656 on them. They do say fantastic,etc. They also are the dual plug type and are not marked 653 on top part of the cover. Also there are two raised ends on the bottom of the frame where as the 653's i just picked up have only one in the middle of the bottom side of the cover ( used for removing front cover). Does anyones 656's have these two raised ends on bottom of cover? thanks again rich

ponyboy said:

hey guys, thanks for the info. i believe my marchals are the original correct lights , but my lens dont say 656 on them. They do say fantastic,etc. They also are the dual plug type and are not marked 653 on top part of the cover. Also there are two raised ends on the bottom of the frame where as the 653's i just picked up have only one in the middle of the bottom side of the cover ( used for removing front cover). Does anyones 656's have these two raised ends on bottom of cover? thanks again rich

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Rich;
The 656's I have, have the duel raised edges on the bottom. The set of 653's
I have only have 1 raised edge on the bottom and like yours are not marked on the top but, are marked inside the housing. My 653 reflectors also have Fantastic on them as well as made in France on the bottom but, no marking as to type of reflector (i.e. 653, 656, 658). My 658 reflectors are marked with 658 in upper left corner. As was stated earlier, the 653's were not used on the CS cars but, are almost impossible to tell apart except for the 656 marking on the upper left corner of the lens. All markings on the 653 and 656 are the same except for the 656 in the upper left corner. It is possible with all the other strange things Ford did, that your 653's were mounted at the factory but, they used 656 housings. Are your housings stamped inside with 656 or 653? Remember these reflectors are interchangeable. It's even possible that a previous owner had a cracked lens and swapped them out using 653 reflectors not knowing the difference. Myself to me it's not a big deal unless your going concourse but, then again, most judges wouldn't know that.

Don :wink:

I purchase my CS from the original owner and and they are 653 and i do believe they are original, they don't have any marking that said 656. inside they are stamped 653, my car was produce february

Kinda makes me wonder if Ford may have used more than just one type of Marchal fog light on these cars? I know the 653's are so close it's very hard to tell them apart without actually looking inside the housings.

Don

Don,
Do your 658's have the same bulbs as the 656's? I admit I havn't compared the two I have (656's up on the shelf) but if memory serves the 656's had large bulbs and openings and my 658's have small openings and I haven't tried to put bulbs in them yet.
It's my intention to use the 658's when I get to that point.
Bill

653's on mine

Our CS has been in our family since new. The Marchals on ours are the originals. There is no way to tell what they are from looking at the exterior. So....I opened one up and found that under all the dirt and dust on the inside is the rubber stamp "653" and a rubber stamp date of 20 December 1967.
Our CS was built in Feb 1968.
Great site & hello to all, Mario

Hey guys, thanks for all the updated info. My car was also built in February and the housings are rubber stamped 653 inside too. The bulbs are small round bulbs with the socket sealed to the reflector. I'm really starting to believe that they are the originals even though both lenses aren't marked 656's. Im thinking Marchal gave Ford several styles of lights to keep up with the large order Ford requested. Also I would like to ask Mario if he has the small round bulbs in his? Thanks again with info Rich

Mario said:

Our CS has been in our family since new. The Marchals on ours are the originals. There is no way to tell what they are from looking at the exterior. So....I opened one up and found that under all the dirt and dust on the inside is the rubber stamp "653" and a rubber stamp date of 20 December 1967.
Our CS was built in Feb 1968.
Great site & hello to all, Mario

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Mario;
Thanks for your post. Looks like we may have uncovered another mystery with the CS. If your lights are original to the car and your casings are stamped 653 inside that answers a big question. Now lets hope the price of the 653's doesn't sky rocket.

Don

The fog lights on my car are original also. I saw this thread and it got my attention, so for craps and giggles I checked mine also. No number 656 in the lense, I didn't open them up lately, but I know there was no ground wire in the housing. I am guessing they are 653's. My car did not have a wiring harness or bulbs when purchased. I met the original owner of my car back in the 80's. He had received the recall when the car was new, took it in and they had Lucas lights to replace the Marshalls. He didn't like the idea of drilling into the car to mount the new lights, and he didn't use them either. To keep everyone happy, the dealer removed the bulbs and wiring harness. When the fog light switch was activated, it would light up the instument panel and all parking and taillights. Is this correct that when the fogs come on, all the other lights come on? I modified VW headight bulbs to fit in place of the factory bulbs without any destruction to the lights, then just wired up the VW bulbs. Not the best but better than non working lights. Hey back then there was very little info on this subject.

653's on mine

Hello again everyone,
Yes Rich, the bulbs on ours are just a little over 1 1/2" in diameter. Mario

Jayscal said:

The fog lights on my car are original also. I saw this thread and it got my attention, so for craps and giggles I checked mine also. No number 656 in the lense, I didn't open them up lately, but I know there was no ground wire in the housing. I am guessing they are 653's. My car did not have a wiring harness or bulbs when purchased. I met the original owner of my car back in the 80's. He had received the recall when the car was new, took it in and they had Lucas lights to replace the Marshalls. He didn't like the idea of drilling into the car to mount the new lights, and he didn't use them either. To keep everyone happy, the dealer removed the bulbs and wiring harness. When the fog light switch was activated, it would light up the instument panel and all parking and taillights. Is this correct that when the fogs come on, all the other lights come on? I modified VW headight bulbs to fit in place of the factory bulbs without any destruction to the lights, then just wired up the VW bulbs. Not the best but better than non working lights. Hey back then there was very little info on this subject.

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Sounds a little strange to me. When I use my fog light switch the only lights that come on are my side marker lights, fog lights and rear taillights along with my dash lights. My headlights and parking lights do not come on. Hope this helps.

Don

I have had my car since about 1981. It has Marchals. The fog light switch has always turned on the fog lights, all the lights except the headlights come on.

My mistake on the switch function, Any one have a wiring diagram handy?

I just took apart my Marchal's. They are rubber stamped 653 and have a date of dec 28 1967 inside of them..I beleiev these are the original liohts that came with the car.

Jayscal said:

My mistake on the switch function, Any one have a wiring diagram handy?

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Here are a few pages I downloaded from the internet some time ago.

A photo of the inside of my light...Shows the 653 and date markings