1968 X-code GTCS - Value?

[x-codegtcs]

Hey fellas - a long time since I have been on here. I picked up a 68 x-code GT/CS about 10 years ago with the intent on restoring it. I haven't got to it and would like to see it get to someone who would care about it. The car is in rough shape as it is an original SLC dealer car - all the salt took it's toll. I have the rear qtrs and outer and (I think) inner wheel wells, a spare driver door (the door is dented from last owner). The torque boxes are rusted as are the rear frame rails and floor pans.

I have the Marty report for the car and will break out my camera and post photos. It is registered with Paul Newitts latest registry. The engine is the original 390 2V and although the car had some previous front end damage I have all the parts - Lucas or Marchal to complete the front end.

I know value is in the eye of the beholder and finding that right individual in the market place - but anyone interested in offering some advice?

Thanks! Bryce

 

[gt/csj4]

I'll give you 9k cash for it, and ill pay shipping

 

[rvrtrash]

Without seeing photos, and just going by your description, I'd jump on that deal. Finding someone that wants to take on a project that big is going to be tough.

Steve

 

[x-codegtcs]

OK - here is a link to the photos. As I took the photos a few items to clarify:

*driver torque box ok
*driver rear frame rail ok
*Inner wells look ok
*I would suspect the rocker panels need to be replaced
*Trunk drops need to be replaced (have sheet metal)

I do not have replacements for the rocker panels, left rear frame rail or left torque box.

Marti Report shows black vinyl top, red GT/CS stripe, and PS as the "notable" factory options.

https://picasaweb.google.com/114335...authkey=Gv1sRgCN681rfqwNXYkgE&feat=directlink

GT/CSj4 - I have sent you a PM.

 

[Midnight Special]

...Interesting stripes and scoop lettering. Your disclosure and photos are fantastic! I hope she finds a loving and dedicated home

 

[DeadStang]

Where is the car?

 

[x-codegtcs]

Yeah, the stripes are funky. A buddy of mine and long time GTCS / HCS owner thought this might have been the prototype GT/SC. I don't think so since it has the late production date and rear qtrs. The history to this is the car was in a minor wreck in the early 80's. the hood passenger fender and door were damaged. From the looks of the trunk stays it looks like there was a minor rear end at one point that required the stays to be rewelded but not bad enough to damage anything else. The stripes and script are all painted on by hand. I am guessing the body shop forgot the order of the GT/CS and put SC. I am the third owner so the details were sketchy about this from the previous owner. Fun bit of history though.

 

[x-codegtcs]

The car is located in Utah - just a bit north of SLC.

 

[DeadStang]

The car is located in Utah - just a bit north of SLC.

I always like to see what people say about the X codes as I have one, too. Recently picked up a Cougar XR7/X-code for very little $$$ locally. I know Cougars and Mustangs are comparing apples to oranges, but the X cars don't get much respect, no matter the pedigree. And I think they are neat cars!

After looking at your pictures and reading your description, I would think in today's market, the $9K offer is a decent one. Mine is a very solid and rust free Cali that ran (kind of) and drove (dangerously) when I got it shipped here... It cost me a fair amount, but required much less work to be an actual driver. And that was mostly money spent for parts and my (free) labor. It still has a long way to go, if I choose to do more.

The problem is, as I'm sure you already know, unless you can do metal work yourself (which I cannot)--even if this car was FREE--you'd end up having at least twice (if not more) the "done" value spent in cash to make it be a solid, shiny driver, paying a body man and for the paint. I have a '69 Mustang that needed much less body work than your car, that I spent enough to buy a small house locally to make it pretty, and it's also not even 100% done still. I try not to think about that too much...

Having said that, I find that projects sell for proportionally more than finished cars--across the board. If I were in your shoes, I'd put it up for $10K and see how much interest you get. Did you see the S-code up in the north east somewhere here on this forum for sale for $19K? It has some rear-end damage, but looks pretty good. There is (was?) another S-code from Hawaii that was being sold for around $25K-ish awhile back...also a solid, shiny, non-rusty driver. And the S cars get more respect than the X cars, although I think the X cars are rarer? Just not as desirable.

It's a rough market right now.

 

[x-codegtcs]

Dead - thanks for your guidance and input. I know that the X-codes aren't valued as highly, as to be expected despite their rarity. It is always fun, though, to see the people's expressions when you tell the "X code". I have a convertible that i have $10k just in paint and body work to fit the fiberglass. So I know what you mean by a small house

So what is your best guess on value if I replaced all the sheet metal that needs replacing? Essentially it is just labor as I have most of the metal already.

 

[DeadStang]

Making it a solid car in primer w/the replacement metal you already have, if it has an interior installed to look "complete" (but not necessarily good--but door panels in place, etc), and it starts, runs, and stops so it can load for someone... I'd guess a value around $15K? That would make it very similar to mine--it needed paint (still does!), etc, etc, etc--when I got it.

Really hard to venture a guess, tho, as I said--since you never see an X for sale. I'm channeling the S-code/C6/CSGTs when I am sitting here and making this up!

 

[dalorzo_f]

15k in primer? Seems a bit high. Unless everyting else is done to a pretty good standard and all it needs it paint. And if you go that far then paint is a minor expense, as most of the work to paint is in the prep.

I'd say, while "rare" it would bring not much more than a comparable A code. The X codes as a detuned 2V 390 just don't get folks excited.

If I owned it as it sits and somone offered me the 9k above, I'd take it in a heartbeat. And there's no way you'll get it to driver/primer for 6k)

Sadly, unless you can do welding and body (well, as that's a major repair job there) to restore properly will take far more than the car will ever be worth IMO.

A car worth saving , for what it is, but unfortunately nowhere near a break-even deal if done right.

 

[DeadStang]

15k in primer? Seems a bit high. Unless everyting else is done to a pretty good standard and all it needs it paint. And if you go that far then paint is a minor expense, as most of the work to paint is in the prep.

I'd say, while "rare" it would bring not much more than a comparable A code. The X codes as a detuned 2V 390 just don't get folks excited.

If I owned it as it sits and somone offered me the 9k above, I'd take it in a heartbeat. And there's no way you'll get it to driver/primer for 6k)

Sadly, unless you can do welding and body (well, as that's a major repair job there) to restore properly will take far more than the car will ever be worth IMO.

A car worth saving , for what it is, but unfortunately nowhere near a break-even deal if done right.

I was basing the $15K on the previously offered $9K...if someone would pay $9K as it sits today, a "solid" driver is surely worth $6K more? A $9K offer wasn't a parts car price! And I certainly know there is NO way in heck that all of that work can be farmed out to a shop for $6K--as I said, I have an S-Code that I have paid to make pretty, so I'm familiar with writing the big checks. Mine is the correct color, with a few primered spots, and I think if I was to have sold it outright when I got it back then, I certainly could've gotten $15K for it. So, if I compare his car "fixed-ish" to mine as it was, I believe $15K would reel in a sucker who likes odd vehicles.

 

[Midnight Special]

...I love the X-codes same as others, but this reminds me of certain war relics (like planes) retrieved from the jungles with nature having a big head start. People nonetheless invest huge $$ in recovery and restoration because they love them! Although I largely agree with "dalorzo" on this one, there are dedicated and appreciative folks worthy of praise and support. Just ask Mike "somethingspecial"...

 

[x-codegtcs]

15k in primer? Seems a bit high. Unless everyting else is done to a pretty good standard and all it needs it paint. And if you go that far then paint is a minor expense, as most of the work to paint is in the prep.

I'd say, while "rare" it would bring not much more than a comparable A code. The X codes as a detuned 2V 390 just don't get folks excited.

If I owned it as it sits and somone offered me the 9k above, I'd take it in a heartbeat. And there's no way you'll get it to driver/primer for 6k)

Ill take that bet.

Sadly, unless you can do welding and body (well, as that's a major repair job there) to restore properly will take far more than the car will ever be worth IMO.

A car worth saving , for what it is, but unfortunately nowhere near a break-even deal if done right.

The metal work doesn't scare me. We see these kinds of cars in UT all the time. I would only need $500 or so more in parts (based on what I saw while taking photos) to get it to a "driver" state with all solid metal. My issue is that my "done right" standard and someone else's "done right" standard are different. The last two mustangs I did I stripped down to the frame, sand blast, replace metal then paint (and have a 3rd one sitting in primer all metal finished). So if that is your definition of "done right" than we agree and the cost is higher. The state you see it in the photos is because I was preparing to get it sand blasted until a convertible entered my life and my wife wanted it done first. It was drivable and the engine ran before that. For me, to replace the sheet metal means that i continue down the dis-assembly route, sand blast and replace the steel. More time than I have right now or i would have alreday done it. So what I thought about this car was to sell it and let the buyer decide what "done right" means for him. To be honest I know too many people who have bought cars "done right" that turn out to be garbage. That is why I buy the projects and fix them myself. Then I know they were "done right" to my standards and I can live with that and know I don't have to worry what will manifest is 5 or 10 years. Not to mention the satisfaction of having something to stand back and admire.

Also, I don't agree with the comparison to an "A" code. Just my opinion. That is why I bought it. I recognize that value is in the beholder. I guess that is why some people love their Cameros and Cudas and we don't have one auto maker making just one kind of car.

Really if there was money to be made, this wouldn't be called a hobby. The only guys who make money are the parts and body shop guys. But for us owners that want our own peice of history, we do it for the love - at least that is why I got into it.

 

[DeadStang]

Really if there was money to be made, this wouldn't be called a hobby. The only guys who make money are the parts and body shop guys. But for us owners that want our own price of history, we do it for the love - at least that is why I got into it.

I wish we'd get back to the hobby and the love of the car aspect of these old Mustangs, and away from the investment mentality. Perhaps this is just my way of justifying pouring thousands and thousands of unrecoverable dollars into my selected little heard of Mustangs that I love, while it seems like all of these other people "invest" in cars and turn them for big bucks. Sigh. I try to compare my hobby with other hobbies that I think are totally worthless, a waste of time, and cost a fair amount of money...golfing, gambling, flying, to name a few. To each hobbyist, I am sure greens fees and hanger rental and all of that is totally worthwhile. Not my cup of tea.

I do also think you've brought up a valid point. Many of us west-coasters are pretty spoiled with the cars that are around locally and that we buy. To guys in the midwest and northeast, rust that makes me want to turn and run screaming for the hills doesn't phase them. I find a few little floorpan groove pin holes and it's the end of the world for me, but I'm really spoiled with dry central California and eastern Washington cars.

X-code--good luck on whatever you decide to do. And the guys over on the FE Forum also like odd-ball FEs, even if they're only 2V-360 truck engines...even in the old trucks! They are also a good resource for help. You might take a look there sometime--and they're pretty patient with my stupid questions.

 

[x-codegtcs]

I wish we'd get back to the hobby and the love of the car aspect of these old Mustangs, and away from the investment mentality. Perhaps this is just my way of justifying pouring thousands and thousands of unrecoverable dollars into my selected little heard of Mustangs that I love, while it seems like all of these other people "invest" in cars and turn them for big bucks. Sigh. I try to compare my hobby with other hobbies that I think are totally worthless, a waste of time, and cost a fair amount of money...golfing, gambling, flying, to name a few. To each hobbyist, I am sure greens fees and hanger rental and all of that is totally worthwhile. Not my cup of tea.

I do also think you've brought up a valid point. Many of us west-coasters are pretty spoiled with the cars that are around locally and that we buy. To guys in the midwest and northeast, rust that makes me want to turn and run screaming for the hills doesn't phase them. I find a few little floorpan groove pin holes and it's the end of the world for me, but I'm really spoiled with dry central California and eastern Washington cars.

X-code--good luck on whatever you decide to do. And the guys over on the FE Forum also like odd-ball FEs, even if they're only 2V-360 truck engines...even in the old trucks! They are also a good resource for help. You might take a look there sometime--and they're pretty patient with my stupid questions.

Dead-thanks again for your advice and even more so for your understanding my addiction and love of these cars. I don't think there is any way to get ahead in any of these cars if done right. I just don't see how people do it and make money especially as the good finds are all drying up. I remember when K mustangs were still being found and then when the last few were reported as found and they were only half a car. My convertible was an AZ car out of Cool, CA and had been in parts for 12 years before i got it and I still had to replace the rear qtrs and outer wheel wells once i sand blasted it. so i figure if i have to replace a qtr due to 1 sqr inch of rust or 80 sqr inches, a qtr is a qtr is a qtr. Anyway, a good friend told me that despite my addiction, I am "performing a needed role in society - someone has to preserve history."

So a toast to all my history preserving buddies! Those of us that do it for the love!!

(Does this mean we new to start the first chapter of MAA - Mustang Aholics Anon?)

 

[dalorzo_f]

Well, the point was missed. IMO it ain't worth 9k as it sits.

The orignal post asked for advice, not what you wanted to hear.

As for an A vs X, post one of each in similar condition and I guarantee you will get far more calls on the A code. An X is an oddity for someone who wants "wierd" (in a good way) but as a 2V FE they just don't pull much more than an A code. Detuned FE with a C6 doesn't float a lot of boats. Boat anchor mythology and not even the "poor" S code. (I own two and love 'em)

As for a hobby, I get that, I don't do it to make any money but for the enjoyment I get out of it. But as the original post indicated a sale as an option, it is generally best to sell what you have than dump money into it assuming you will recover the costs. Especailly in todays market, prices are soft and demand low. If you have a stack of spare parts, the skill to fix it, and don't value your time then sure, you can cut "costs".

I've seen really solid S code coupes (no rust) go for 14-16, so I can't see an X in primer with the engine bay and interior as they look topping that, even as a GT/CS. And you can get a very nice GT/CS for 15-18.

I hope you find someone who gives you 20k. And appreciate your interest in saving the car. But based on a lot of looking for an X or S coupe recently 15k would be a very good sale price if the rest is as-is and the only change is sheet metal and primer based on all the cars I looked at over the past few years.

Me, I'd take the 9 offered and save the aggravation. If doing all that metal work, body and primer is worth it for you, go for it. But if its in primer why not just paint it (as the hard work is done, paint is the cheap part) and as a painted car it will bring a higher price. But I wouldn't bank on getting 15k unless you are prepared to hang onto it for a while to find that one of many buyer who is interested... when they can get the red S for 19.8 (or less)

 

[x-codegtcs]

Well, the point was missed. IMO it ain't worth 9k as it sits.

The orignal post asked for advice, not what you wanted to hear.

As for an A vs X, post one of each in similar condition and I guarantee you will get far more calls on the A code. An X is an oddity for someone who wants "wierd" (in a good way) but as a 2V FE they just don't pull much more than an A code. Detuned FE with a C6 doesn't float a lot of boats. Boat anchor mythology and not even the "poor" S code. (I own two and love 'em)

As for a hobby, I get that, I don't do it to make any money but for the enjoyment I get out of it. But as the original post indicated a sale as an option, it is generally best to sell what you have than dump money into it assuming you will recover the costs. Especailly in todays market, prices are soft and demand low. If you have a stack of spare parts, the skill to fix it, and don't value your time then sure, you can cut "costs".

I've seen really solid S code coupes (no rust) go for 14-16, so I can't see an X in primer with the engine bay and interior as they look topping that, even as a GT/CS. And you can get a very nice GT/CS for 15-18.

I hope you find someone who gives you 20k. And appreciate your interest in saving the car. But based on a lot of looking for an X or S coupe recently 15k would be a very good sale price if the rest is as-is and the only change is sheet metal and primer based on all the cars I looked at over the past few years.

Me, I'd take the 9 offered and save the aggravation. If doing all that metal work, body and primer is worth it for you, go for it. But if its in primer why not just paint it (as the hard work is done, paint is the cheap part) and as a painted car it will bring a higher price. But I wouldn't bank on getting 15k unless you are prepared to hang onto it for a while to find that one of many buyer who is interested... when they can get the red S for 19.8 (or less)

No, the point was not missed. Your opinion was pretty clear.

I guess a 68 X code is about as weird as a 68 A code.

See, the difference is that working on these cars is not an aggravation for me. I understand that there are many who feel the same way you do and that is ok. I just don't feel aggravated working on them. I get aggravated NOT being able to work on them.

But to be honest, I must have the affinity for the "weird" and the swiss (cheese that is). Take a look at this GT/CS that I am currently restoring to original.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/cnksu5we2wla5wf/Jcode GTCS.jpg

I guess the worst part about selling the car, is I will have to change my forum name 8-O

 

[CougarCJ]

The "A" code, 289-4V engine was last built in 1967.:smile:
I know, that you all knew that, but for accuracy's sake, we need to keep this forum accurate.

I wasn't planning on drifting off topic on this thread, but it has drifted. :wink:

The X-code is an oddball engine even in the Cougar world. Rare, but not particularly in great demand.

Personally, from a driving and investment stand point I would rather have a J code (302-4V) 4 speed, over any X code.

I would take a Deluxe (body code 65B) X code GT/CS over a J code automatic.