1968 Build date question - how early?

[robert campbell]

Scott,
Thanks. Went into Curtis's site. He has the option list posted.

This car has all the pedigree of being a debut car. Page 14 shows an exact clone of this car.

Curtis, it would be interesting to see the script holes from inside your trunk if you can find them in the undercoat. Page 14 shows the script abnormally high.

Curtis, by the way, as this goes forward brace yourself for a PM asault if it is......

Rob

 

[Mosesatm]

Arlie,
Can you scan in page 14. It was the stage car painted in gulf stream aqua with a white vinyl top. J code.

Curtis,
Not saying what you may have, but do the comparison.

Rob

Here you go.

 

[robert campbell]

Thanks Arlie! Boy does the car that Curtis has resemble that debut car.

Rob

 

[Midnight Special]

Rob, Regarding the debut, the text on that page reads "...as sales to dealers exceeded 1000 GT/CS cars .... One Thousand cars is all Lee Gray and his staff had on hand at the time and probably could have sold many more than that"...

So does that mean 1000 cars were already complete by Feb 15? ...and... If there was such a shortage, could some dealers have been guided to modify existing coupes (yours & the twin) to meet projected demand around that time?

Just spitballing w/ no proof, but kinda makes sense to me...

 

[robert campbell]

Tim,
All of the text on that page is kinda interesting. Disecting what PMN wrote years later.... If they had 1000 cars on hand, why would they need "prototypes". Other than the script needing to be put on? Interesting also is the the word "wholesale" orders in the text. These were dealer ordered cars not customer ordered. Not sure if that changes anything.

IMO there were parts waiting but there were not many completed cars. I bet you are correct and there was a flurry of building on the line. Why have completed cars sitting there not sold and build more? Just put the parts on and go. IMO there was alot of "catch up" done before cars came down the line customer ordered from a dealer as a GT/CS from inception. It all makes to much sense.

The debut of the GT/CS is so different that say the Mach I or a Boss. Those cars were designed, concieved, and announced form Ford themselves. The GT/CS was a midyear offering from a district.

It would be helpful if we could get a copy of a bunch of the Marti's for the early cars. Do side by side comparisons of the ordering info. Scott's is hugely early!!!

Rob

 

[robert campbell]

Just reviewed page 56 which Arlie posted earlier. Curtis's car is in the orginal registry owned by a Judy Gunter at the time 8R01J131680. It was found or submitted by Ernie Gonzales, or Judy. It lists a 19 January build date, and it was submitted as a later reflector not a recessed one. That is incorrect from the pictures. It has recessed reflectors. Curtis lists it as a 30 January build date.

Ah the fun....

Rob

 

[mustang.biz]

Scott,
Thanks. Went into Curtis's site. He has the option list posted.

This car has all the pedigree of being a debut car. Page 14 shows an exact clone of this car.

Curtis, it would be interesting to see the script holes from inside your trunk if you can find them in the undercoat. Page 14 shows the script abnormally high.

Curtis, by the way, as this goes forward brace yourself for a PM asault if it is......

Rob

Rob, can you tell me more precisely what I'm looking for inside the trunk? Holes for the california special script being in a different place? Unfortunately I don't have a copy of Paul's book. I want one, my cars are pictured (including this one) throughout it, but I haven't found one to buy for less than $300.

Some pictures on on my site, I am planning on taking more pictures soon. The original top was White Vinyl, stripes were white.

Here is the owner history I have

1. Me (Curtis Kaffer)
2. Ernie Gonzales purchased on Feb 24 1988
3. Jude T Gunter (San Diego resident)

According to the GT/CS Survey that Ernie filled out (back in 1988) he is the 3rd owner and the previous owner had it for 18 years. I do not have the name of the original owner, unfortunately this car doesn't have the original warranty card (a few of my other cars do)

 

[Mosesatm]

Rob, Regarding the debut, the text on that page reads "...as sales to dealers exceeded 1000 GT/CS cars .... One Thousand cars is all Lee Gray and his staff had on hand at the time and probably could have sold many more than that"...

So does that mean 1000 cars were already complete by Feb 15? ...and... If there was such a shortage, could some dealers have been guided to modify existing coupes (yours & the twin) to meet projected demand around that time?

Just spitballing w/ no proof, but kinda makes sense to me...

Since 4000 cars were built that would mean that over 25% (1000/4000) of the cars would have recessed reflectors. It's just a WAG on my part but I don't think even 10% have them so I don't see how 1000 cars could have been ready by that date.

 

[robert campbell]

Curtis,
You can see Judy's name in Arlies post earlier in the thread. To find the holes you got two choices. Go inside the trunk and look around on the inside of the quarter. There is usually a thick coat of sound deadener sprayed on the inside making it more fun. If you can find them you can poke them through to the outside.

Or you could sand the paint on the outside. Car looks like it needs a repaint anyway.

Below are the two pictures of my car. One with the script in the tradidional low position. The other is a photo shop rendition done by Tim from the dimensions of the hole location from inside my trunk. If you car more resembles the high position, I would bet it may be a debut car. And it may be the one on the stage!

FIND THOSE HOLES!

Rob

This is the traditional location

This is IMO the debut location of the script.

 

[robert campbell]

Since 4000 cars were built that would mean that over 25% (1000/4000) of the cars would have recessed reflectors. It's just a WAG on my part but I don't think even 10% have them so I don't see how 1000 cars could have been ready by that date.

Can't argue with that logic!!!!

 

[mustang.biz]

I am going to look now, The script isn't even installed, I will measure the holes that are there now and will look for any others. I think the holes there now I kind of high, I have other cars to compare with as well, will update tonight and will post more pictures.

 

[Mosesatm]

Here is the relevant portion of the rear cover.

 

[robert campbell]

Arlie,
The white car in the center is so obvoiusly close to 6 inches above the recessed reflector. Way higher than the later traditional location.....

Never could get PMN to realize this.....

Rob

 

[mustang.biz]

OK, I took a LOT of pictures. See the gallery here:

http://www.mustang.biz/Mustang.biz/Photo_Gallery/Pages/J_Code.html

The script is higher than my other cars that have the chrome bezel reflector, but not 6". The other cars are 3.5", this one is closer to 4.25". The pictures that show this are in the gallery. I pulled emblems from another car and stuck them in for measurement. There is no evidence that a second set of holes exists.

The caption from page 14 exactly describes my car. I think I'm going to call Marti to see if they can run a report to find cars with the known debut car option list that were built on or before Feb 15. That would give me a better idea of the odds that mine is the one on stage. Has anyone done such a custom report? Will they do it? Any idea of cost?

Thanks for all the info, this is fun!

Edit to note that the "Special" script popped right in, but "California" wasn't a perfect fit. Not sure if that means anything. I have a LOT of emblems, I'm sure I have the original ones to this car somewhere.

 

[robert campbell]

Curtis,
To me that looks like the traditional location. The recess reflector and the chrome relector account for the difference.

I think Marti will be a dead end for any info on debut cars. But who knows!! This is fun!!

Rob