1968 Hood lock cut out

[Ruppstang]

Can some one with a original paint car tell me if hood lock cut outs were made before or after paint? I am thinking before but am not sure.
Marty

 

[somethingspecial]

The holes were cut after paint and the edges were left jagged. No paint inside the hole on the underside of the outer skin. Same as the tail light cut outs.

 

[Mosesatm]

Is the underside of the outer skin red oxide primer, or raw metal?

 

[somethingspecial]

Raw metal Arlie, The hoods were assembled in raw metal, painted, then the holes cut, so there would be no paint between panels and would be exposed when the holes cut. Of course there are always examples which make you wonder. Most original examples I have seen were rough cut, no paint inside hood, hole not deburred. Below is a picture of an orignal example (Ed Bodah) which appears to have black paint inside hole and body color on edges of saw cut, with an original second rotation number still present, indicating no repaint. Adds fuel for a debate, but IMHO, the hole should be rough cut, no paint touch up due to many I have seen. The second photo, #51, is my car and detailed to match examples I have seen.

 

[Ruppstang]

Thanks Mike! Perfect timing we need to cut the hole today. I think we will shoot a little clear in there just to stop the rust.
Marty

 

[Mosesatm]

Mike,
It looks like your car has red primer on the underside of the outer skin. Is that correct or is the camera flash creating illusions?

 

[somethingspecial]

Mike,
It looks like your car has red primer on the underside of the outer skin. Is that correct or is the camera flash creating illusions?

Arlie, that is surface rust. It has since been removed. Funny how the camera does not lie. It picks up every imperfection.

 

[franklinair]

I can't believe Ford did such a ragged/jagged job for those cutouts.
If I had to cut a hood for the pin installation, I'd be in a quandary trying to decide between originality or quality.

Neil

 

[sportyworty]

it is a perfect circle cut with a hole saw. You have to cut the big bottom first so you have a pilot. Scary job not blowing up through the top skin. The you have to cut the small top hole and pray when you see daylight that you are dead on the latch bracket. I have templates and the test steel tube etc. Scott Fuller made me a template and we used one of his survivor cars to get everything. It came out perfect on my 390 4 speed car. There was no evidence of paint between the skins or on the edges of either of his cars. I taped off the top hole and shot some satin clear inside for protection.

 

[robert campbell]

The fact that the hole cutouts were so crude is another piece of the GT/CS puzzle that indicates the cars came down the line, nearly finished and then were modified for the GT/CS option. Drilled holes for the GT/CS rear quarter script. A crude hole for the scoop and taillight panels. Remove the trunk lid and end caps. Blamo! GT/CS. One thing that took a bit of effort was the taillight wiring harness and fog light add. Possible that the cars were convert prior to the interior installation?

I like the picture in the latest book of a bunch of the cars staged for the conversion to a GT/CS. Not sure of the page. We debated the GT/CS script as drilled or punched. Drilled during the conversion.

Kinda why I have said that the first 14 cars, or the cars on the GT/CS debut stage were more than likely converted from already assembled cars that will never be verified by a Marti report. Ordered and completed long before the debut. As a standard Mustang. I still do not think that the car identified in the last book as the "stage" car is necessarily that car. It is an early car, but who knows. There was a myth that all the cars had tachometers, but that has been dispelled by another pic in the newest book showing a white car with its driver door open. No tach.

I could be wrong. But the way this option was installed gives credence to the fact that completed cars ordered as regular Mustangs might be the real first 14 cars.

Rob

 

[Mosesatm]

Rob,
I think the fog lights were fairly simple because our cars use standard GT wiring harnesses.

I agree 100% with your theory on the stage cars. They will never show up in Marti's database as California Specials, and they should have high scripts, and possibly spliced tail light harnesses.

 

[robert campbell]

Arlie,
My guess as it would require soldering and wire identification not common to a line worker to splice the tail light harness. The worker removed the door sill plate. Front kick panel and rear seat. Removed the rear interior quarter trim to install the side scoop nut and then installed the GT/CS tail light wiring harness.

And as you said, they fed the fog light harness forward to the newly installed grill with brackets for Marchal's. Installed the Fog Light switch. Later they did the same, but drilled for Lucas lights. I would say that the cars ordered after the debut came down the line with the proper grill installed with Fog light wiring and switch. At this point the line knew they were destined to be GT/CS cars from inception. More than likely had the tail light harness also installed. Interior pieces left out to install the scoops. No trunk lid and end caps.

Kinda like how Ford delivered the 65 Fastback Mustangs to Shelby. No hood, no trunk lid and end caps. No rear seats and a Hipo motor.

Rob

Rob

 

[Ruppstang]

I may have discovered the answer to my question. I was reading the latest GTCS recognition guide about the hood pins (page 104) and it says that the holes were cut with a nibbler(not a hole saw) before the top and bottom of the hood were bonded. So there should be paint in the recess. It also says that the early hand built cars had a smaller hole on the bottom skin, something to look for when trying to substantiate a debut car.
Marty

 

[GTCSMustang]

the holes were cut with a nibbler(not a hole saw) before the top and bottom of the hood were bonded.

No way, I'm not buying it.

Scott

 

[Ruppstang]

No way, I'm not buying it.

Scott

OK I think I am with you because our 7-16-68 HCS has very even holes as you are showing on yours. I have used a nibbler and it would be very difficult to cut a round hole that evenly. Now do you believe that the hole was cut before the two hood shins assembled or after? To me it made no sense for the small number of these cars to make a special hood. IMHO they pulled as regular hood and cut holes with a hole saw that would be much faster than a nibbler. Do you think this happened before or after paint?
Thanks for your comment.
Marty

 

[sportyworty]

Lol

Hey Marti
After and After like Mike posted.

 

[Mosesatm]

Seconded

 

[robert campbell]

"third-ed" Cut out on the line after the paint was done. My car had small holes. I enlarged them to the standard GT/CS look. At the same time I moved my script down to the more "normal" location. This was done back in 1989 before I had any idea that it was an early car.

Tim,
I am trying to remember if I sent you my original script that was kinda flat looking? There is a picture of it a few posts down in the below thread. If you have it I would like to give it to Mike for history preservation. It was definitely different than the Ford versions I put on my car.

http://californiaspecial.com/forums/showthread.php?t=9216&highlight=script

This thread also shows a "mimic of what the higher location would look like and a picture of the holes on the inside of my quarter panel. You can still see them.

Rob

 

[Maine gt/cs]

My car has the original hood and the holes for the hood locks have ragged edges and the holes are not perfectly round. My taillight panel has holes that look like a hole saw was used. Perfectly round.

Tim

 

[Ruppstang]

Well guys I am sorry for not trusting the collective knowledge on this sight. I do not know how I missed the hole saw mark on my own original hood pictured in my first post on this thread. Thankfully we detailed dad's car per your instructions. This is not the first inaccuracy I have discovered in the book. I am not saying that no hoods lock hole were cut with a nibbler as equipment broke down on the assembly line and other methods were used to get the job done. Certainly as you have pointed out the hole saw was the fastest method.
Marty