1968 Use of Lead instead of Bondo

[Tequila]

I was talking to someone the other day and he said they used lead when they restored their car. I got the impression that it is considerably better method than using bondo.

Have you heard instances where they used lead on mustangs? Does it pose any health risks? How about when need to strip the paint and repaint the car to it's original color? Does the lead come off when stripping a car?

Sorry, I know this may not be directly related to the California specials but just thought if anyone has had any info on they could share on this.

Thanks

 

[Ruppstang]

All 67-68 Mustang hard tops had the roof seam leaded in from the factory. It is by far the best but is a dying art today.

 

[Don]

I was talking to someone the other day and he said they used lead when they restored their car. I got the impression that it is considerably better method than using bondo.

Have you heard instances where they used lead on mustangs? Does it pose any health risks? How about when need to strip the paint and repaint the car to it's original color? Does the lead come off when stripping a car?

Sorry, I know this may not be directly related to the California specials but just thought if anyone has had any info on they could share on this.

Thanks

Bondo is way better than lead. I grew up, and worked in, my dad's auto body shop and there is good reason lead is hardly used anymore and bondo is the filler of choice. It is true that early factory seams were all done in lead but most repair work is done with bondo. No reason to use lead (just look at all the professional car resto and hot rod shows on TV and nobody uses lead for those works of art).

Lead was used in production because the early skill set grew up on using lead (before bondo was invented) and you did not have to constantly mix a new batch each time (the pot was hot all the time and ready for each new car coming down the line). Lead was cheap but eventually the health risks became well known and bondo became recognized as vastly superior for its light weight and ease of use.

 

[Tequila]

Thanks guys. So, if a car has lead on it, when you strip the old paint do you have to take any extra precautions other than standard respirator, etc.. Also, if a car has lead, can any of the modern shops that no longer uses lead, can they repaint it without removing it if the old lead seams are in good shape?

 

[dalorzo_f]

One-size-fits all answers are generally simplifications. Lead provides material properties and capabilities in some restorations that bondo can't do.

No expert, but in speaking to the "metal man" over the years at the shop that does my body/paint there are areas on many cars they will not use Bondo on, only lead. It is a dying art, and the move to Bondo is based on ease-of-use in many cases, not that its better in all cases.

For the C pillar many now remove the old lead (its really lead/tin mix, and as noted still toxic, as is bondo) weld up the seam then fill. Large repairs with bodo need to be done carefully.

 

[Mosesatm]

Thanks guys. So, if a car has lead on it, when you strip the old paint do you have to take any extra precautions other than standard respirator, etc.. Also, if a car has lead, can any of the modern shops that no longer uses lead, can they repaint it without removing it if the old lead seams are in good shape?

Existing lead is not a big deal. Filler sticks to it just fine so if there is no rust under the lead (no bubbles) I suggest leaving it alone.

 

[dalorzo_f]

+1 :smile:

 

[Don]

One-size-fits all answers are generally simplifications. Lead provides material properties and capabilities in some restorations that bondo can't do.

No expert, but in speaking to the "metal man" over the years at the shop that does my body/paint there are areas on many cars they will not use Bondo on, only lead. It is a dying art, and the move to Bondo is based on ease-of-use in many cases, not that its better in all cases.

For the C pillar many now remove the old lead (its really lead/tin mix, and as noted still toxic, as is bondo) weld up the seam then fill. Large repairs with bodo need to be done carefully.

There is good reason it is dying. Bondo is better in all cases and there is no cause to use lead for any reason. What exact material properties and capabilities are you referring to? Panels are first spot welded together for structural integrity and then a filler is applied to smooth out the seam (was lead now it is bondo). The coefficient of thermal expansion for Polyester is closer to steel, than lead is, so for a filler it is far superior.

There is no problem in leaving the original lead on the car and if you need to have additional filler on top of the lead I would use extra precaution and spray on an epoxy primer over the lead and then use Bondo on top of the primer.

 

[dalorzo_f]

I'll defer to the many high end restorers who I have spoken to who don't use Bondo everywhere (not just talking Mustangs here).

There are reasons to use lead. Two web examples here which note some reasons to use lead below;

http://www.willhoitautorestoration.com/leadvspolyester.php

http://www.eastwood.com/lead-free-body-solders-soldering-tips-techniques-instructions

"Even the best polyester body fillers available today cannot match the superior adhesion, strength and overall durability that body solder provides." But Eastwood must know nothing about restoration and fillers...?? :wink: They sell both. Maybe for a reason?

Bondo is cheap and easy, thus the reason most folks reach for a can instead of learning to lead or paying for the skill (I tried a bit at the shop, it is a bitch and takes some real skill, unlike mixing and applying skim coats of Bondo, which I can do)

Not all cars that use lead use the same processes, and as noted in these two examples (among many out there) there are some who feel there are reasons to use lead instead of Bondo in some restorations.

If you want to believe Bondo is better in all cases, no matter what, we can agree to disagree. Just putting other opinions out there for consideration.

 

[Don]

No doubt you can still buy lead and tin filler just as you can still buy new vinyl records. Purists will always have some reason to defend what they feel is best and bash modern technology. Superior adhesion- I have personally seen poorly done lead fail miserably (not enough flux) and I have ground off 40+ year bondo (up to 5mm thick) that you would have never know it was there. Strength-Neither material is used or should be relied upon for structural strength (they are fillers). Eastwood, just like most companies, will supply anything if there is profit associated.

In my early body shop days we used paddles to apply the lead and now application with rod is much easier but still a PIA. When enamel (that was baked) was displaced by much better paint there was absolutely no call to use lead for any reason (I still have a few files stashed away somewhere). Just because lead is harder to apply does not make it is superior; it means that technology has advanced to provide a better way.

If people still want use rocks for spear points and axes so be it but FYI we moved into the iron age a while back.