Could the "VIN TAG" have been switched?

[68gt390]

Is it possible that a "VIN TAG" could be switched from one car to another? I have seen one claimed to be "Shelby" at a local restoration shop in my area were you can clearly see the VIN portion on the fender was cut out and re-welded. The car was brought in for additional work and the shop technician pointed it out to me when I was looking at the car.

Reason for my question - check this car on ebay. Although a Marti Report is posted with photo's, showing the California Special package as an option, nothing on the Marti Report match's the car plus there are a ton of "red flags" that jump right out at you. Look at additional photo's to get a good look at the trunk area. Would be interesting to hear what other members think on this one?

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=4508502903


Don ???

 

[carvensno]

i see what your saying Don, God i cant beleive that stripe job! . When they restored it they could have change they ext. and int. colors. my CS i had was Lime gold Ext. and Ivy gold Int., i thought i was an ok colors, but it would be my first 5 choices of colors matching. I have a feeling who ever restored this car didnt like the original colors and change it. I have seen this before on other regular coupes, i had one that i decoded that was a red on red, and the original colors were white ext. and black int.(go figure ???)

 

[admin]

If you look at the "additional pics" page there are some shots of the underside and trunk where you can see the old Lime Gold paint. No offense to any Lime Gold owners, but it's a pretty 60's color. I'm not surprised someone along the way changed it. And of course if you're going to change the paint to red you can't keep the Ivy Gold interior.

 

[68gt390]

OK, let's say we change the color and the interior. Look at the obvious items on the exterior of the car (FORD lettering on the hood) wasn't that discontinued prior to the 68 model year? Running horse emblem on front fenders (no mustang script lettering), no script lettering on the trunk either. Fog lights look a little strange, as does the die cut on the GT/CS emblems on the side scoops, along with the fact the car is a "C" code engine but, now has a 302 in it. Granted, all these things could be changed but, I would think if your restoring this type of car you would at least put the correct emblems back on it. Changing the VIN Tag is not impossible, I've seen it done before. Simply removing the VIN Tag from the passenger side window and putting it onto another vehicle. Run a Marti Report with the new VIN and walla, you now have a GT/CS. That's just my thought on the subject.

Don :

 

[PB gtcs]

Vin tags are easier to change than are numbers under the front fenders. That usually gives it away. I know a guy that had a rusted out 69 Mach 1. He litterally took the body off at the windshield, kept the front numbers and put a non Mach 1 fastback body back on. Sold it as a Mach 1. He said there is a pretty brisk business in that trade. Also know a guy that has cut off front clip of a Mach 1, put it on another car to make it a Mach 1. The market makes folks do strange things.

Brian

 

[Mr. Shelby Guy]

I saw this car personally and it is no GT/CS. I live in OKC and attended the Tulsa Kruse Collector Car Auction in June and saw this car. I looked for the owner, but I had no luck. It was a nice looking coupe, but like it was previously mention, has "red flags" all over the place.

 

[carvensno]

well would kevin marti be able to verify this report for this Vin#, the guy could have done a photoshop job on the document, scan it and then modified it and post it.

the the point here is that, it is a fake or someone didint know what the hell they were doing when restoring this CS and did it the cheap way!!!!! ???

 

[68gt390]

[quote author=Mr. Shelby Guy link=board=1;threadid=1218;start=0#msg6819 date=1101858928]
I saw this car personally and it is no GT/CS. I live in OKC and attended the Tulsa Kruse Collector Car Auction in June and saw this car. I looked for the owner, but I had no luck. It was a nice looking coupe, but like it was previously mention, has "red flags" all over the place.
[/quote]

Mr. Shelby Guy;
Thanks for your input and comments. Goes to prove my point. This is not a photo shop job on the document, it's a switch in "VIN" tags simply put. Kevin Marti produces a Marti Report based on the VIN you send in to them. It's an authentic Marti Report but, not on this particular car. The person who is selling this car may well think it's a true GT/CS based on their purchase of the car from someone else who may have switched VIN tags. A true case of not doing your homework before purchase. As has been stated many times before on the site - buyer be ware!!

Don : :

 

[carvensno]

yes i see what you are saying 68gt390, but the admin has a good point also, on the additional pics you can see some of the old paint, what look like lime gold?

i dont know i give up, if it a fake thats just wrong, but if it real then someone should get slap in the face for doing such a shyty job on a restore.

(throws hand up in the air)

 

[mmarsalone]

Well I tried to stay out of this one, but..............

Is that really Lime Gold overspray? Do I see some of that same color on the rocker molding? Also, the front seat upholstery is wrong or different year seats altogether. And it says it has a new headliner, installed by who? Look at the first pic of the 6 additional. Also, Marti report doesn't say anything about power disc brakes.

When I go to car shows I don't point out what's wrong or incorrect with peoples cars unless asked. So I was biting my lip on this one.

Now, I need to teach my 7 year old son to keep quiet when he sees something wrong though. He's been around Mustangs all his life and knows quite a bit about what's correct for each year. He tends to point out these to me in front of the car's owner.

Mike

 

[68gt390]

Good catch monkey_golf, overspray on the rocker molding. You would think they would have at least cleaned some of the obvious things up before listing the car. I've sent messages to both the seller on ebay and the dealership listed on the additional photo's and have received nothing. Must be snowing in Oklahoma!!

Don ???

 

[68gt390]

[quote author=68gt390 link=board=1;threadid=1218;start=0#msg6824 date=1101868292]
[quote author=Mr. Shelby Guy link=board=1;threadid=1218;start=0#msg6819 date=1101858928]
I saw this car personally and it is no GT/CS. I live in OKC and attended the Tulsa Kruse Collector Car Auction in June and saw this car. I looked for the owner, but I had no luck. It was a nice looking coupe, but like it was previously mention, has "red flags" all over the place.
[/quote]

Mr. Shelby Guy;
Thanks for your input and comments. Goes to prove my point. This is not a photo shop job on the document, it's a switch in "VIN" tags simply put. Kevin Marti produces a Marti Report based on the VIN you send in to them. It's an authentic Marti Report but, not on this particular car. The person who is selling this car may well think it's a true GT/CS based on their purchase of the car from someone else who may have switched VIN tags. A true case of not doing your homework before purchase. As has been stated many times before on the site - buyer be ware!!

Don : :

[/quote]

I finally got a reply to my emails from markeeauto@cox.net who was not the posted seller on ebay. I will post their reply and you can make what you will from it. I have my own opinion about their replys but, we all know how options are. I not only got a reply but, got several replys so I will post them all for all to see. First Reply:
Hello, we have been out of town, gone to Indiana, and just returned. We are a used car dealer and have been for many years. we have a 36 year old Mustang for sale that looks very nice and runs good. no apologies. it sounds like your are looking for a $20,000 car and are probably not a buyer for this car. the Marti report shows it came from the factory as a documented California Special. It was originally gold and can be repainted back to that color if that is your preference, for about $1500. I personally like red and they sell much better. the letters can be taken off the hood and the holes repaired and painted for less than $100. We have a numbers matching 289 engine that can be installed in one day and would probably cost about $1,000 extra. this car can be changed to suit you for a lot less than you would think. I can get a set of factory wheels for about $500, if that is your preference. We do not feel that we are mis-representing the car. we have tried to give an accurate description and show pictures of what we are selling . Thanks, Jim Lewis

Second Reply:
Hello, I know this is your second e mail and we just returned from out of town. if you have any other questions that are not answered, we will try to get them for you. the car was repainted when we purchased it. the body panels look very straight and the underneath of the car looks good. we have no history on the car and will try to get you the previous owners name on request. let us know. thanks, Jim Lewis 580-234-7922

And low and behold I received a third reply:
Hello Don, Buyers do buy these cars that are not up to your factory specifications. we recently sold item 4500 477 875 to a buyer for $14,750 that was listed similar to this car , factory 289, 3 speed, black seat ( Marti Report ) that had been changed to a 302, automatic and no grille lights or other GT markings. Like I replied, you did not appear to be a buyer anyway and the car is still for sale and apparently you have a very nice and that is good. thanks, for your interest. Is your car for sale and at what price ? Jim Lewis

The only thing I can assume from their replys is that they are out to make as much money as they can. Doesn't matter how much history they know on the car or weather the car is original/ligidimate or not. They are very willing to change what ever is necessary to make a buyer happy to sell the car. They are only worried about their bottom line. Guess since I took the time to post their replys to me I should also post my reply to them.
This was my reply to markeeauto:
Jim;
Your right, they are not up to "factory specifications", it is a clone. It is unfortunate that you are able to rip off the public the way you do. It is quite clear to me that you have no morales/scruples in the way you conduct your business. To me you are a vulture on society. I need say no more.

Thank you for your reply.

Don

I hope those of you on this site take no offense to what I have posted here. I just think it's very important that folks see and understand how other's out there conduct their business. Again, I cannot stress how important it is that we all do our homework and always keep in mind the all important verbage of "Buyer BEWARE".


Don Potter - Proud owner authentic 1968 GT/CS

 

[carvensno]

Well said Don, your awsome man!!!!!!! ;D ;D ;D

 

[case12]

[quote author=PB gtcs link=board=1;threadid=1218;start=0#msg6811 date=1101848743]
Vin tags are easier to change than are numbers under the front fenders. That usually gives it away. I know a guy that had a rusted out 69 Mach 1. He litterally took the body off at the windshield, kept the front numbers and put a non Mach 1 fastback body back on. Sold it as a Mach 1. He said there is a pretty brisk business in that trade. Also know a guy that has cut off front clip of a Mach 1, put it on another car to make it a Mach 1. The market makes folks do strange things.

I know I have read this somewhere, but where do I look for VIN numbers under the front fenders? Thx, Casey

Brian

[/quote]

 

[68gt390]

Casey;
If you look on the drivers side fender apron you will notice what appears to be a square notch cut out. This is were the VIN used to be stamped prior to the 68 year model. For the 68 year model the VIN can be found usually under the fender if it is not stamped in that square cut out area after it is removed. I know from seeing several different 68 cars built both in Michigan and New Jersey those plants still continued to stamp the VIN in the square notch cut out as well as under the fender on the drivers side. Every car I've seen built at San Jose does not have the VIN stamped in that cut out area (it is located under the drivers side fender). Hope this helps.

Don

 

[case12]

[quote author=68gt390 link=board=1;threadid=1218;start=0#msg6913 date=1102215443]
Casey;
If you look on the drivers side fender apron you will notice what appears to be a square notch cut out. This is were the VIN used to be stamped prior to the 68 year model. For the 68 year model the VIN can be found usually under the fender if it is not stamped in that square cut out area after it is removed. I know from seeing several different 68 cars built both in Michigan and New Jersey those plants still continued to stamp the VIN in the square notch cut out as well as under the fender on the drivers side. Every car I've seen built at San Jose does not have the VIN stamped in that cut out area (it is located under the drivers side fender). Hope this helps.

Don


[/quote]Yes, my 66 is from NJ and has the VIN info on top of the drivers fender as you mention. The 68 CS is from San Jose. Sorry I am missing this, but what do you mean that the VIN is "located under the drivers side fender"....do you mean that the fender has to be removed to see the VIN? Casey

 

[68gt390]

Casey;
You got it. It should be located just under the fender usually in the same location or general area as the cut out. It makes it kinda a pain in ass to have to remove the fender but, if your particular "VIN" tag is missing from the passenger side window area that's about the only other place to find it other than it being stamped into the engine block.

Don

 

[68sunlitgold]

Casey,
rumor has it the reason the VIN is stamped under the fender on the San Jose cars was the stamp was mis-placed so it did not meet up with where the cut-out is. Now, I don't know if I agree with that only because I would think that they would see that after the first 100 or so and then correct it.

Doug