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"A date which will live in infamy"

p51

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For those who are interested there is a series of articles in the NYTimes about Pearl Harbor written during Dec 1941 which are just now being published. They were evidently censored by the dept of the Navy in 1941.

From the article...

"Here, 64 years late, are edited excerpts from a dispatch sent to The New York Times by Robert Trumbull, the paper’s correspondent at Pearl Harbor. It details a triumphant but mostly forgotten story of World War II: the salvage effort that rebuilt the Pacific Fleet after the Japanese attack."

Link (I think you have to register - free - to read the NYTimes on-line):

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/12/07/opinion/07trumbull.html
 
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p51

p51

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p51 said:
...written during Dec 1941 which are just now being published. They were evidently censored by the dept of the Navy in 1941...
Opps. Sorry, the articles were written in Dec 1942 - one year after the attack at Pearl Harbor...
 

mustgetastang2

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I dont know if this is true or not but I found it interesting none-the-less.

Franklin Delano Roosevelt spoke those famous words on December 7th,1941It was just after the Japanese had bombed Pearl Harbor and he was speaking to our nation.
Pearl Harbor was bombed on a quiet,sunny Sunday morning at 7:55 AM.Two U.S. soldiers saw the planes on the radar scopes,but were told by their superiors to ingore it because they were expecting some friendly B-17's coming from the mainland.30 minutes later the first bomb fell and almost killed a courier boy that was sent with a message to the Pearl Harbor Naval Base that the Japanese Imperial Navy was going to attack them.The Japanese caught us by surprise because of the tradition of not working on Sunday.
Throughout the first two years of the war,Roosevelt made life hard for the people of Japan.One of the policies he started was the American financial and economic embargo.Not only did it support China in its fight with Japan,but it also forced nuetral countries to side with the U.S. because if they gave aid to any of the Axis countries,the U.S. would no longer give them aid.
A second policy was the moral embargo of July of 1938.This banned nuetral countries from sending planes and equipment to countries who engaged in the bombing of civilians.This made the U.S. look good by protecting innocent people who were being killed just because they lived in a different country.By enforcing these policies,the U.S. made it so the Axis countries could not grow economically and thereby had to support themselves if they were against the Allies.These policies was a way for Roosevelt to attack the enemy with out actually declaring war.This would be one of the primary reasons why Roosevelt would allow Pearl Harbor to occur.
Since 94 percent of the public were against going to war,Roosevelt had to find a reason to enter the war without losing the support he was recieving from the vast majority of the public.Its no coincidence that half the Navys gunboats were reassigned to Pearl Harbor a few months before the attack or that evidence points to that Roosevelt may have known about the attack and maybe even helped plan it.
Roosevelt sent all the expendable ships to Pearl Harbor because he figured they might as well destroy the out-of-date ships that were replacable.The attack enraged to American commoner that they wanted the Japanese to pay for what appeared to be an act of betrayal,after they thought that negotiations were underway to promote peace not war.
Also,the two commanding officers that ignored the planes,were aquitted in a retrial of all accusations of derelictions of their duties.There was some reason they ignored the planes and it was thought that they had been ordered to by a higher ranking officer,maybe Roosevelt himself.
Before Japan or the U.S. had entered the war,Roosevelt had plans drawn up based on fighting a two ocean war.Why would he have plans drawn up if he wasnt going to enter the war?He was going to enter the war but he had to find the right reason.Or he may have seen that the U.S. would have to enter the war eventually and they might as well be in control when the first shots were fired.
While two people,Adm.Husband E.Kimmel and Gen.William Short were the scapegoats in this plan,it gave Roosevelt the means to enter World War Two without losing the support of the public. He knew that if enough people wanted something Congress would give it to them just so they would have a job after the next election.Therefore a majority of the Congress voted for the U.S. to enter the war on the side of the Allies.Roosevelt knew that if he could get one of the Axis powers to attack Americans then he could get the U.S. into the war.
Roosevelt and his cabinet covered their tracks very carefully so there would be no evidence of foul play.Roosevelt knew Japan was going to attack,but didnt take any peacekeeping actions because he wanted a reason to enter the war.
So what does everyone else think?Just thought I would give you all a little something to read about this infamous day in our history.
 

Midnight Special

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...Waaay off target there mustgetastang2!.... Sorry, but you're a little too bent for the effort on this one.

To begin such a profound load of bull with the statement "I don't know if it's true but..." implies that you're more for stirring the pot than researching truth. It's unfortunate because alot of youth were raised as perty useless adults with reckless examples of that... 'Big problem in our world today. There are innumerable resourses to help you if you care to look...
 

Mustanglvr

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Where did you find this information? On the net? I`d like to see the website where this is posted. Whoever came up with this must be anti-American.
 

rvrtrash

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I would have to respectfully disagree as well. I visited the Arizona memorial this summer and had to listen to some stupid ditz loudly proclaim the same crap, on the memorial which to me is hallowed ground, and say the same thing about Bush and Sept. 11 and then finish with "All those Republicans are the same, they'll kill anyone to make money". It took great effort not to knock her into the water for showing such disrespect. By the way, for the nut cases that don't know-Roosevelt was a Democrat.

Steve----Off my soap box now.
 
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Mosesatm

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Why do so many people think that every bad event in our nation's history is the result of a conspiracy? It looks like we have become a 60-minutes and Oliver Stone inspired (conspired?) generation.
 

mustgetastang2

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OK,Boy am I sorry I posted that!!Seemed to cause you all to get your hackles up.I didnt say I agreed with it,I just thought I would post it for you to read.It is just another opinion that I found that I thought you would be interested in reading.My bad!!
 

Mosesatm

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No blood, no foul.

If you really want to rile up the masses just suggest putting Corvette door handles on a GT/CS, or suggest powering one with an Infiniti 3.5L V6!!!!! Don't ask how I know; just trust me on that advice.

BTW, I think you and Rhonda live in the same part of the world.
 

Mustanglvr

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Mosesatm said:
No blood, no foul.

If you really want to rile up the masses just suggest putting Corvette door handles on a GT/CS, or suggest powering one with an Infiniti 3.5L V6!!!!! Don't ask how I know; just trust me on that advice.

BTW, I think you and Rhonda live in the same part of the world.

:eek: Oh yeah Arlie, you don`t want to go there again, lol.:wink:

She lives in my part of the world, but I don`t claim to know her.:grin:
 

rvrtrash

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mustgetastang2 said:
OK,Boy am I sorry I posted that!!Seemed to cause you all to get your hackles up.I didnt say I agreed with it,I just thought I would post it for you to read.It is just another opinion that I found that I thought you would be interested in reading.My bad!!

Hey no problem. We (or me anyway) need a little shaking up once in a while. You just happened to hit on a subject that had me steamed recently so you kind of caught the brunt of it. We're all still friends. :grin:

Steve
 

Perkchiro

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Mosesatm said:
No blood, no foul.

If you really want to rile up the masses just suggest putting Corvette door handles on a GT/CS, or suggest powering one with an Infiniti 3.5L V6!!!!! Don't ask how I know; just trust me on that advice.

BTW, I think you and Rhonda live in the same part of the world.

Arlie: Here's my take on it. Someone that posts improper info regarding the facts of American History are not expressions of opinion, but rather false words and lies. The posts regarding the Corvette door handles are merely expressions of opinion. Sorry you got your feathers ruffled over those posts. In retrospect, I think you should put those handles on your CS and I bet it would scream with and Infiniti 3.5. Humm.....Seems I got a similar royal kick in the butt for the repaint on my car....remember that one?
 

Mosesatm

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Steve, I forgot to add the smiley face at the end of what I wrote so it may have come across as being a serious comment instead of one written in jest. For my smiley face oversight I apologize.

That said, my feathers aren't ruffled at all about the door handles or anything else; well, other than for the fact that you keep bringing up the color change issue even after I sent you a PM when I first commented on your color change just to make sure you understood that my comments were in jest and you replied that that's how you took the comments and all was good. Again, I'm sorry if your feelings were hurt with my color change comments, in spite of what you told me.

Regarding the Pearl Harbor post, the person posted an odd, yet interesting, take on American history and asked for our opinion. I don't remember the poster mentioning anything about it being fact, or even that he or she believed in it.

It's called having an intelligent discussion about an issue, Steve. I found it amazing and disheartening that there are some people who really believe in such conspiracies but it's nothing to get all worked up about.

So, why is it what you believe is always the gospel truth and no one else can express another opinion without being shot down? I realize that you have a hair up your butt towards me and if you want to take shots my way go ahead, but why blast a new member to the board with, "It's CRAP"?

You can stew in your hatred for as long as you want but I'm certainly not going to live my life that way. We're most likely on this earth only once and spending a day mired in anger is a day lost.

Just my opinion, not a fact.
 

Perkchiro

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Wow, what a dramatic overreaction. I truly don't have a "hair up my butt" or hatred toward you. I was intending to have some good hearted banter to bounce back at you but I guess my tone or tenor made if sound terse. Sorry my friend, didn't mean to offend. "It's Crap" was my succinct way of summarizing my opinion and was it was just that, my opinion. I didn't say that the poster had concurred with the info. And where did I say that my opinion is the "gospel truth"? I began that last post with "Here's my take on it". I don't think I deserve such a summation of what I'm about. I don't intend to "shoot down" anyone and I apologize if that's the way it appears. I value the written word and I use those words advantageously to strengthen my views, but never to intentionally offend anyone. In return, I expect for my views to be respected but constructively criticized when inappropriate or "out of line". This isn't one of those occasions.
 

Mosesatm

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Well, that's good to know!! Looks like we were both being civil but just weren't able to adequately portray that in our writing. I'll work to do better.

Take Care

Arlie
 
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p51

p51

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mustgetastang2 said:
Re:

I dont know if this is true or not but I found it interesting none-the-less.

Franklin Delano Roosevelt spoke those famous words on December 7th,1941It was just after the Japanese had bombed Pearl Harbor and he was speaking to our nation.
Pearl Harbor was bombed on a quiet,sunny Sunday... etc, etc, etc
Couple of comments:

Good conspiracy theories (as is the the standard one above about FRD "setting up" Pearl Harbor) are backed up by facts. But there are two things that you always need to check with a conspiracy theory. (1) Are *all* the facts represented in the theory and (2) when all the facts are present is the theory the most plausible. I don't have the inclination to go into details because I dont really feel like typing that much, but there are facts that the above conspiracy theory ignores which actually argue that the *last* thing FDR ever wanted was a war with Japan.

Second (diff topic). Again, for those who have an interest. I just saw a PBS special on DVD called "The Perilous Fight - America's World War II in Color". Its a good synopsis of the war (very high level) but the most interesting thing is that all the photography is in *original* color. For those like me who grew up with only color TV it really pulls the war closer in history and in a sense, at a gut level, makes the war more real.

Finally, (approx) "If one does not learn from history he is bound to relive it".
 
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