Concours Restoration Books/Marks

[x-codegtcs]

Anyone out there know of a reliable concours reference manual?

 

[Russ]

I believe the best books describing a 1968 restoration are the Ford Assembly Manuals. The MCA judging guidelines are also quite good. Once your car is completed, take it to an MCA show, have it judged in the Concours class, and ask a lot of questions. MCA board member Laurie Slawson, out of Tucson, AZ, is truly an expert on 1968 cars and can provide you a wealth of information!!

 

[StraightSix]

I have a (photo)copy of the GT/CS Concourse Judging Guidelines (thanks Tom!). Paul put these guidelines together, but I don't know if he has any more original copies. As long as it's okay with Paul, I can make you a photocopy and mail them to you... but only if it's okay with Paul. I don't want to infringe on any copyrights. I'll shoot him an email and ask.

-Winston

 

[rjw]

Winston,
I think several of us would be interested in this material. When you talk to Paul, and assuming the "admin" approved, is there a possibility it could be uploaded to this site for all of us to view?
Thanks.
Richard

 

[StraightSix]

Okay, both questions are asked (re: individual photocopies and uploaded images). I don't have a scanner, however, so if we get the okay to upload images I'll have to mail the rules to someone with a scanner.

-Winston

 

[x-codegtcs]

Winston,

If you get the OK, I can scan the images. If it would be better - and ok with Paul, I could get it put into Adobe Acrobat for everyone to down load from this site and reference.

Also, on the list does it have the paint markings, colors, application points, etc. This is the info I have the hardest finding.

Thanks

 

[bish]

Also, on the list does it have the paint markings, colors, application points, etc. This is the info I have the hardest finding.

Thanks


I'd be very interested in this info as well.

 

[StraightSix]

I spoke with Paul and he's okay with me making one or two copies of the concourse guidelines -- however, he says that they've been updated and appear in the 1996 Registry! I forgot/didn't realize this little fact. He's going to talk with Jon about getting the updated rules on this site. Does everyone here who wanted the rules have a copy of the 1996 Registry? If not, they're cheap from Paul (see the Classified forum) and they include a bunch more useful information that you'll want and need.

-Winston

 

[x-codegtcs]

I just ordered one of his last First Registries and one of the 96 edition. I know it has a lot of info for the GT/CS, does anyone have anything on the other "standard" marks?

Thanks in advance,

Bryce

 

[Russ]

I emailed Bish and explained that I have the paint markings/daubs for a 289/C-4 with Select-Aire. I also discovered the proper exterior paint inspector markings in the engine compartment when working on a totally original Highland Green GT from San Jose. These inspector markings are totally different from the Dearborn and New Jersey plants. I'll help if I can. Russ

 

[bish]

Thanks Russ ;D
I'll be in touch
Bish

 

[guest]

I will look at my data for the 1996 Registry book, and get it to Jon Hanna ASAP for you to use. Maybe we can do it like a webpage here, for you all to review...

I wouldn't be 100% sure of the MCA rules, since as far as I know, they base most of what they judge on NJ and Dearborn produced cars. For instance, those east coast cars got a lot more black undercoating than the San Jose cars, and the antennas are different, and the trunk mats are different, too (this includes the '68 HCS cars, too). The list goes on and on...

The main reason I wrote the rules in 1996 was because (I felt that) CS cars were going to MCA shows, and getting knocked for not having the things that were on the east coast cars.

There is a gentleman, named Jeff (??) that did a Mustang Tech Newsletter out here in Calif., who is really into the colored marks on the underside, proper alternators, volt regs, belts, etc..etc., of the cars. I'll try to find that out for you.

I would like to see the GT/CS (HCS) cars beat out most to all of the other concours cars at shows, since we're the most aware and educated about what was what (in my opinion, and from what I've seen here on these message boards).

Besides, you folks are great!!

Paul.

 

[Russ]

When building any Mustang to concours standards, I think the biggest question that must be asked is "what is going to be done with this car when it is completed?" A concours restoration implies that the Mustang will be 100% correct, as the car left the factory in 1968. Most concours cars are entered at shows rather than used as daily drivers, so the car needs to be restored to a particular standard. This is where MCA rules, Paul's GT/CS Judging Guidelines and the Ford Assembly Manuals can be used together to determine the standard. To win awards, the car must meet the standard, and this is how MCA judges the cars. Once the cars are judged, if every car entered in the concours class meets the standard, then everyone wins a "gold" or first place. Your car does not compete with my car, it only competes with the standard. My experience with MCA is that judges are very familiar with the unique differences of the three assembly plants, AND the judges are willing to listen to your explanation if they have a question about your car. Small, local shows drive me crazy, because the "participants choice" awards typically go to the cars with the most chrome or have the brightest red paint job (forget thinking you will win with a white car!!). I guess this is my "editorial" on building a concours car, and thanks for letting me present my opinion. Russ

 

[guest]

Not to toot my horn TOO loud, but I think if someone were to take their GT/CS to any show, they should have my 1996 Registry book in hand to "prove' that something is as it is--especially for the GT/CS "package" on a San Jose-produced Mustang (of a particular time frame, too).

I wrote those rules, (and updated them) primarily so that owners could have something to support the various details while their car it is being judged.

I would like to see ALL Mustang registries write up their own rules for those cars' specific details, production changes, etc., so that those cars had more of a chance to win, based on how good their restoration is.

I would also like to see a GT/CS class at MCA (and other shows), if there are three or more in attendance. Otherwise, it isn't fair to lump all the '67-'68 coupes together, when we might have an advantage with our "pedigree". I once heard that there wasn't a GT/CS class at a major USA car show (remain nameless), because they said "the car wasn't sold nationally". Geez. There are as many GT/CS cars as '68 Shelbys out there, and it is NOW available nationally--and internationally (just saw one in Sweden!).

The politics of car shows. I agree with Russ about the pitfalls of "popular choice", too...the red '65 GT convertible gets it all the time.

Paul.

 

[Russ]

It would be great to have a GT/CS - HCS class!! What I have found is that the judges really like a GT/CS - HCS in the coupe class, and usually these cars do very well. Paul, your books are the "bible", and I take both with me whenever I enter my car in MCA shows. I also take all the assembly manuals and any other documentation (ie: Marti report) that supports the restoration. Russ

 

[x-codegtcs]

Russ,

Where can one find a copy of the assembly manuals (are these the Jim Osborne reproductions?)?

Bryce

 

[68sunlitgold]

Russ,
I have all four of the Jim Osborn assembly manuals and I have not seen any specific thing for the GT/CS, but my 67-68 "Exploded View Illustration Manual" does have CS diagrams and part numbers. If someone has found a book with more detailed CS info, I would love to hear about it.
Doug

 

[Russ]

Doug and Bryce,
The assembly manuals assist in making sure the right bolts, electrical connections, vacuum lines, heater hoses and all the other "little" details are correct. for any 1968 Mustang. Also, using Paul's book, shop manuals and other refernces, your car can be a concours show winner. If you are lucky enough to get the factory build sheet, you are really in luck. Yes, the Osborne assembly manuals are the ones I was referring to. And as I said in a previous post, the MCA judging guidlines are very helpful too. Russ

 

[x-codegtcs]

Russ,

Thanks. I will need to pick these up. Do they also have the shop marks?

Thanks

Bryce

 

[68sunlitgold]

Bryce,
No there are no shop markings in the assembly manuals, just parts names, numbers, and how they go to gether. They also show where stuff like sound deadener, adhesives, and sealers go.
Doug