1968 Engine bound up...

[dalorzo_f]

Well. the "repaint" on the GTCS has become a nightmare saga... latest issue, right at "the end"...

Shop mechanic who put the engine/trans together failed to bolt the flywheel to the torque converter. No biggie, crank it by hand (even if doing it before installing is easier IMHO). No joy. OK, thngs are a bit snug... remove belts and fan and get a big socket and bar on the crank/balancer bolt. Nothing.... I'm 6-2" 200 and was under that car with a 18" bar and leaning on it pretty good... nothing.... zero movement.

So... what could cause this? The engine was in and running fine. Heads, intake and oil pan never came off. Only easy bolt-ons removed. Removed, degreased, washed with carb area and all holes in intake plugged, but exh manifolds off so some water could have sprayed into the exh ports. Block was outside and immediately after washing was turned on the stand in all directions and blown off with compressed air to dry. So I can't believe water got inside and rusted it solid...

I did replace the timing cover gasket, as the water pump got pulled and replaced, but am fairly sure the bolts were replaced in the right places/order.

It is a C4 car. I did not install the trans but had the torque converter properly seated. The harmonic balancer was stiff to get on and the guy at the shop whacked it on with a mallet (I stopped him too late, heard the banging from across the shop and was too late, generally I don't use hammers on engines). Could this have damaged/bound something inside the engine?

I need to pull the plugs and try again, but I can't believe compression would be causing this issue. Hope more than reality... As it will not move at all.

Suggestions, thoughts, comments? I am not really looking forward to pulling the engine again to figure it out, but am thinking this may be required.

:undecided :icon_dead

 

[franklinair]

Bummer. These things make me paranoid.
The last time I went thru a similar situation, my process of elimination was: transmission in neutral, removed spark plugs, removed all fan belts, removed starter, loosened bell housing from engine block (about 1/2" separation), loosened converter nuts from flexplate. That's when I found the converter was incorrectly positioned against the flexplate- the converter drain plug had not been aligned with the hole in the flexplate which caused a binding that would not allow me to manually turn the crankshaft as you have described.
With all these things disconnected, there's nothing left external of the engine to bind it up.
Smacking the harmonic balancer with a hammer or mallet is not nice, but I doubt if any harm would have been internalized in the engine.

Neil

 

[dalorzo_f]

Thanks Neil.

I forgot about the plug/plate item... glad you mentioned it. Forgot to note he did crank one of the down, so maybe that is the issue.

We have a holiday here Wed and I'm taking Thur/Fri off too so will take a look... hopefully in an hour or so get that checked...and until then hope you figured it out....

All this time on the GTCS is stalling the EXP, which is in a time crunch for its date.... but if that can't be so be it, just a show, not the end of the world if I miss it.

More important to do the car right and... deep breath... enjoy the process! :wink:

 

[dalorzo_f]

Removed the one nut from the torque converter and the slight slack allows the converter to move a bit. Pulled the plugs and still bound tight.

Any ideas on if somehow replacing the timing cover/water pump and inadvertently misplacing one of the bolts could somehow bind the engine? Only thing I can think of that could possibly be an issue as pretty much everything else is untouched...

 

[p51]

...
So... what could cause this? The engine was in and running fine. Heads, intake and oil pan never came off. Only easy bolt-ons removed. Removed, degreased, washed with carb area and all holes in intake plugged, but exh manifolds off so some water could have sprayed into the exh ports. Block was outside and immediately after washing was turned on the stand in all directions and blown off with compressed air to dry. So I can't believe water got inside and rusted it solid...

Hmmm....

It sounds like the engine at some point was out of the car and checked for binding at that time...("Block was outside and immediately after washing was turned on the stand in all directions and blown off with compressed air to dry.") If this was the case then I'd assume that the timing cover/chain, balancer, etc was replaced while on the stand. Did you check engine binding on the stand after that and before replacing engine in the car? If it didn't bind on the stand then (as far as I can see) its either got to be binding at an "attach point" (as noted in above responses) or possibly something accidentally dropped into the intake or exhaust manifold during reinstallation maybe jamming one of the valves or ending up in a piston acting like a piston stop. Did you ever try rotating the engine by hand in the reverse direction?

 

[robert campbell]

+1 to P-51 on rotating it the other direction. If it moves, but then stops when going back the other way, I would look for a bolt or nut on top of a piston.

I did have a tru-roller timing chain upper gear lock onto a cam retaining bolt castellation once. Stopped the upper gear dead and locked the motor tight. I had to grind a bit and use lock tight to ensure it would stay tight and clear the gear.

Rob

 

[dalorzo_f]

Tried both ways. Zero movement.

 

[robert campbell]

When I ran into the upper timing gear problem it was completely locked in both directions. Removed the upper gear and it moved again.

Rob

 

[dalorzo_f]

Yep, heading that direction, or that somehow the flywheel got bound.

Pulling the engine next week to get a look as it will be easier than more work on the issue with it in the car. :tongue:

Thanks for the suggestions.

 

[p51]

Yep, heading that direction, or that somehow the flywheel got bound.

Pulling the engine next week to get a look as it will be easier than more work on the issue with it in the car. :tongue:

Thanks for the suggestions.

Any updates on what caused the engine binding?
...just curious...

 

[dalorzo_f]

Been side-tracked trying to finish the EXP as all but puling the engine did nothing. Show for the EXP Oct 24th, so the GTCS sits under a cover until after that....

 

[dalorzo_f]

A long time coming, but the bad news has been delivered.

Engine got water in it and seized... 1, 5 and 6. So its off to the machine shop. Its 0.030 over now and unsure if a hone will do it, if not probably looking at sleeving if needed...

 

[dalorzo_f]

Rebuild underway....

So the machine shop feels two cylinders need to be sleeved, hone the rest.

Will buy a new cam and pistons/rings, timing chain set and obviously cam/main bearings.

Pull the heads apart, clean them up and inspect for any damaged guides, has hard seats and newish looking valves. Install new springs.

Get it all home and put it together.

So looking at ~$3k for the fix. But then the OEM block, heads, intake, etc. shuld be good to go for a looong time....

 

[dalorzo_f]

Went for a Crane H-260-2, basically stock spec.

New cam, bearings, lifter, springs, pistons, intake valves and guides (old ones were worn), 3 sleeves. Everything inspected and all machining and balancing done.

$4600.... ouch... then I get to assemble.

Rebuilt the C4, and now the only thing not reworked On the GT/CS is the diff. So an expensive mistake. But in pulling the engine down found a few issue that would have probably required work in the not-too-distant future, and doing the trans as it was out too, it pretty much completes the restoration after the bare metal repaint.

 

[dalorzo_f]

Looks like I'm going to be picking up some parts as I will be in the US in a few weeks. Shop was backed up and wanted some time to get to it, and with the trip I can save some $ buying and carrying back parts as "luggage". Lucky timing.

Will be looking for a cam kit, cam, springs, lifters, etc. set...will contact Crane. Have heard from some Comp lifters can be suspect and Crane are slightly better.

Recommendation on Pistons? Looking at the basic Sealed Power, cheap, reasonable quality from what I hear. And as the MIGHTY C Code might stretch 200HP at the flywheel I don't think I need unobtainum lava forged, zirconium coated race ones... thinking flat tops w the 4 eyebrows will be fine. Probably will go with Hastings Moly rings.