Ford falls to record full-year loss of $12.7bn ...

[p51]

This is an interesting discussion. It touches indirectly on the difference between tolerating something and condoning something.

Personally there are a lot of things that I tolerate in society that I do not condone – that is things that I do not agree with. These days, in many parts of the country, this distinction is lost but in different ways. On the west coast where I now live it turns out that if I disagree with something I’m pegged as being “intolerant”. In the southeast, where I grew up if I say I tolerate something I’m pegged as agreeing with it. About the only place where I’ve seen most people implicitly make this distinction is in NYC. New Yorkers will tolerate almost anything but will tell you in a heartbeat if they disagree with you and why. And they don’t really care if you agree with them or not. In its way it’s quite refreshing.

I’m going to pick on smoking to make this a little more clear (sorry, but please give me just a little slack to make a point).

I personally don’t smoke but I have friends that do. I am friends with them in spite of the fact that they smoke (and I’m sure visa-versa). I don’t go out of my way to chastise them for smoking. But I do not think smoking is right (morally). I personally think smoking is harmful and unhealthy both to individuals as well as to society. I don’t want to be around people when they’re smoking. I don’t want them trying to convince me to smoke. And if they ask I will tell them what I think about smoking and I expect them to respect it as my opinion and stance.

Now the analogy to smoking above can be applied to many things in today’s society that one might tolerate but yet might not agree with. One could replace “smoking” with many other aspects of society today and I would basically have the same stance.

And here’s one more somewhat tangential tidbit. It has been said that “Civilizations are born stoic and die epicurean”. History to an extent bears that out. Just something to think about…

 

[joedls]

This is an interesting discussion. It touches indirectly on the difference between tolerating something and condoning something.

Personally there are a lot of things that I tolerate in society that I do not condone – that is things that I do not agree with. These days, in many parts of the country, this distinction is lost but in different ways. On the west coast where I now live it turns out that if I disagree with something I’m pegged as being “intolerant”. In the southeast, where I grew up if I say I tolerate something I’m pegged as agreeing with it. About the only place where I’ve seen most people implicitly make this distinction is in NYC. New Yorkers will tolerate almost anything but will tell you in a heartbeat if they disagree with you and why. And they don’t really care if you agree with them or not. In its way it’s quite refreshing.

I’m going to pick on smoking to make this a little more clear (sorry, but please give me just a little slack to make a point).

I personally don’t smoke but I have friends that do. I am friends with them in spite of the fact that they smoke (and I’m sure visa-versa). I don’t go out of my way to chastise them for smoking. But I do not think smoking is right (morally). I personally think smoking is harmful and unhealthy both to individuals as well as to society. I don’t want to be around people when they’re smoking. I don’t want them trying to convince me to smoke. And if they ask I will tell them what I think about smoking and I expect them to respect it as my opinion and stance.

Now the analogy to smoking above can be applied to many things in today’s society that one might tolerate but yet might not agree with. One could replace “smoking” with many other aspects of society today and I would basically have the same stance.

And here’s one more somewhat tangential tidbit. It has been said that “Civilizations are born stoic and die epicurean”. History to an extent bears that out. Just something to think about…

My hat's off to you, sir. I am always impressed with your, obviously well thought-out, comments.

 

[PNewitt]

Boy--not to make light of this---but, gosh, I thought "I" had problems here....

I won't get into this one, but I'll say that I know how it feels to be criticised on message boards. It's not a good feeling.

So....

I don't usually post over here, but I wanted to talk about why Ford is failing--at least for now.

I heard today that Ford is a "reactive" company, not a "proactive" company. They put all their eggs in the F-150 and SUV basket, and the bottom fell out.
They need to get back to being pro-active. They were like that in the 1960's. We need more retro--with state of the art technology!!

Ford needs a new family car. Too bad the 500 and the Fusion hasn't taken off.

As alien as this must sound to some of you--I would hope to see a hybrid Mustang sometime soon. If only someone could take the "guts" out of a Escape Hybrid and put it into a new Mustang. In the light of how California is cutting edge in technology, I would hope to see a GT/CS Hybrid as an example....or possibly the Hydrogen/electric version.

Paul N. (middle of road Democrat)

 

[Perkchiro]

Come on Perky that is just rude, but if you want to keep alienating people and spewing hatred I guess you have that right. That's what is so great about this country; we all have the right to express our opinions.

I do have 3 questions for you though.

1. Why do you hate homosexuals so much? And don't try to dance around the issue like you usually do; blaming the liberal media, or terrorists, with semantics, or changing the subject. It's obvious you are a major homophobe.

2. We know you hate gays and I think you mentioned in an earlier post that you hate muslims. What other groups do not fit into your 1930s Germany image of the perfect race?

3. How is it that you can decide when behavior is aberrant and lifestyles are immoral? You didn't say these were things that you felt you implied that they are things that are fact.

Why not trying to get along with people who are different than you instead of hating them or being afraid of them or looking down your nose at them. You might find out that they are great people.

Now before you accuse me of reading too much into your writing, or twisting your words, (SOP) I just want to say that you may not have any of the tendencies I noted above and I may have no idea what I'm talking about. If that is the case I want to apologize in advance for mis-understanding your posts.

Arlie: Once again, you have overreached in your characterizations and assumptions about me. All I said was that Ford was offending many Americans because of their support of alternate lifestyles. I didn't make that up. It's fact. From that comment, I have been painted as something I am not. I was hoping that this would just stop and the inappropriate comments and characterizations would too, but some here get their jollies by fabricating facts about me. Since you asked, here you go...........

1. I'm not a homophobe (never said or implied that) I don't agree with homosexuality as a lifestyle. I believe it is aberrant and immoral along with other deviant sexual behavior. Without getting specific, just understand that it is my belief and you don't have to agree with it or like it.
2 I don't hate homosexuals (never said or implied that)
3 I don't hate Muslims (never said or implied that) Although I do hate radical Muslim terrorists that attack and kill innocent people.
4. I don't think that one race is better than another nor do I think a perfect race exists so I wouldn't qualify as being a Nazi and that implication by you is absolutely inappropriate, inaccurate and below the belt.
5. I believe that all men are created equal. I don't look down on anyone nor do I believe that I'm better than anyone else. Once again you have accused me of spewing hatred. This is the second time you've used that line. I don't hate people, I hate the actions and behavior of some people.
6. Yes, I have my own personal beliefs about the moral corruption of our society. This is on many different levels, not just sexual.

Where is the tolerance spoken of here when it comes to tolerating my comments? Who's spewing venom and hatred? Some of you pick people apart better than you pick apart cars . On various occasions in the past and here today, I have been called stupid, ignorant, a proselytizer, as one who spews hatred, a Muslim hater, a homophobe, as having a burr up my butt, and probably some others I left out. I attempt to never respond with name calling and I would appreciate the same courtesy.

You're right about one thing Arlie, you don't know me and with reference to your above comments about me, you certainly don't know what you're talking about.

This is an interesting ending to your post. A personal character assassination with an accompanying apology as an out. Nice touch.

Apology accepted.

Have a nice day:smile:

 

[Perkchiro]

I won't get into this one, but I'll say that I know how it feels to be criticised on message boards. It's not a good feeling.

I feel your pain:sad:

 

[p51]

As alien as this must sound to some of you--I would hope to see a hybrid Mustang sometime soon. If only someone could take the "guts" out of a Escape Hybrid and put it into a new Mustang. In the light of how California is cutting edge in technology, I would hope to see a GT/CS Hybrid as an example....or possibly the Hydrogen/electric version.

Paul N. (middle of road Democrat)

What I would like to see is a *classic* mustang moded with any high performance, high mpg engine in it. One of the interesting things coming out of Europe (Germany?) these days is low polluting, high performance, relatively high mpg diesel engines (having better specs than equivalent hybrids all around). I'd go for that or a high performance hybrid in a classic stang any day. Finest kind :grin:

 

[Mosesatm]

Yes, I am too amazed and disappointed at the many ignorant, permissive and amoral corporate attitudes as well as individual personal attitudes that support aberrant behavior and immoral lifestyles. Again, just my opinion.

Sorry I mis-interpreted your posts Perky. I guess I was way, way off base by calling you a hater of gays. It won't happen again.

 

[joedls]

Boy--not to make light of this---but, gosh, I thought "I" had problems here....

I won't get into this one, but I'll say that I know how it feels to be criticised on message boards. It's not a good feeling.

So....

I don't usually post over here, but I wanted to talk about why Ford is failing--at least for now.

I heard today that Ford is a "reactive" company, not a "proactive" company. They put all their eggs in the F-150 and SUV basket, and the bottom fell out.
They need to get back to being pro-active. They were like that in the 1960's. We need more retro--with state of the art technology!!

Ford needs a new family car. Too bad the 500 and the Fusion hasn't taken off.

As alien as this must sound to some of you--I would hope to see a hybrid Mustang sometime soon. If only someone could take the "guts" out of a Escape Hybrid and put it into a new Mustang. In the light of how California is cutting edge in technology, I would hope to see a GT/CS Hybrid as an example....or possibly the Hydrogen/electric version.

Paul N. (middle of road Democrat)

My wife would be first in line for this car. It's almost as if you took your words right out of her brain.

 

[PNewitt]

My wife would be first in line for this car. It's almost as if you took your words right out of her brain.

It wouldn't just be a car to attract women, but there are electric motors that can blow off most V8s (Joe's thinking: how do I bolt on a blower to a "sparky" unit??). We are seeing the future happen right now.

A company in the Bay Area, named "Tesla" is making a very fast electric sports car.

"Taking words out of her brain"? Don't say stuff like that to someone with a vivid imagination...I read it and went: "eeewww"....(i.e. "hey, there's a M, just under the cortex"...) LOL.

Paul.

p.s. an unasked bit of advice for Arlie: can you take it down a notch? (i.e. no more coffee?) 26 kazillion posts, and some overly righteous commentary is a bit much. You're a great guy, and you have contributed tremendously to the boards, but as a reader (and not dictator), this isn't as serious stuff as it might seem. BTW--I may not embrace Perk's comments, but I don't see any threatening thoughts on his part (no agenda here; I'll probably catch hell for saying this, but It's just my own observation, that's all).

 

[p51]

...A company in the Bay Area, named "Tesla" is making a very fast electric sports car....

There actually a couple of them....

Tesla:
http://www.teslamotors.com/index.php?js_enabled=1

Wrightspeed:
http://www.wrightspeed.com/
Specs:
http://www.wrightspeed.com/x1.html

Zap-n-Zoom :grin:

 

[CALIF GIRL]

p.s. an unasked bit of advice for Arlie: can you take it down a notch? (i.e. no more coffee?) 26 kazillion posts, and some overly righteous commentary is a bit much. You're a great guy, and you have contributed tremendously to the boards, but as a reader (and not dictator), this isn't as serious stuff as it might seem. BTW--I may not embrace Perk's comments, but I don't see any threatening thoughts on his part (no agenda here; I'll probably catch hell for saying this, but It's just my own observation, that's all).

Paul,

I have to disagree. I think it is serious, since I am a Lesbian it affects my daily life.

Anytime hate is spewed it is threatening. What some people call an alternate lifestyle is not a lifestyle, it is many peoples life. I won't debate if homosexuality is a choice, but either way it is still their life, not their lifestyle.

I, for one was happy to see someone stand up to hate that was hidden by the words,"in my opinion". The more hate is allowed the more hate will be spewed and violence usaully comes next. (and no I am not saying I think Perkchiro will suddemly become violent.) He just happens to be the person who brought this particular hot topic to the boards.

As it is there are some in this country who are attempting to take away basic rights from citizens based on what they think of as immoral. For the first time in American history an amendmendt to The Constitution is being proposed to limit rights of citizens, not protect them.

I am not asking anyone to change their opinions regarding their beliefs on homosexuality. I understand many do not agree with my life and do not condone homosexuality, but what I am asking is for people to be aware that hate is not a family value and hate filled words cause harm.

 

[Perkchiro]

For the record, nothing should be construed in my previous posts as being "hate", "spewing hate", "threatening", "homophobic", "homosexual [hating]", or "violent".

I have simply stated a fact about Ford's sponsorship of alternative lifestyles in their advertising and how this might affect sales. I have expressed my personal opinion concerning MY disappointment with the permissive attitudes of individuals and corporate entities regarding support of alternate lifestyles and the promotion of those lifestyles in our culture. I did not promote any personal "doctrine" or agenda by stating my opinions.

Here is the reason I made the original statement concerning Ford and their sponsorship of a prime time TV show called "Dirt". Here is the link, but I must advise you that it is graphic. http://www.youtube.com/verify_age?next_url=/watch%3Fv%3DWM85xqGC03w

 

[joedls]

For the record, nothing should be construed in my previous posts as being "hate", "spewing hate", "threatening", "homophobic", "homosexual [hating]", or "violent".

I have simply stated a fact about Ford's sponsorship of alternative lifestyles in their advertising and how this might affect sales. I have expressed my personal opinion concerning MY disappointment with the permissive attitudes of individuals and corporate entities regarding support of alternate lifestyles and the promotion of those lifestyles in our culture. I did not promote any personal "doctrine" or agenda by stating my opinions.

Here is the reason I made the original statement concerning Ford and their sponsorship of a prime time TV show called "Dirt". Here is the link, but I must advise you that it is graphic. http://www.youtube.com/verify_age?next_url=/watch%3Fv%3DWM85xqGC03w

I think the record speaks for itself. I, for one, don't need you to explain it to me.

The gentleman doth protest too much, methinks.

 

[Mosesatm]

p.s. an unasked bit of advice for Arlie: can you take it down a notch? .

You bet. Thanks for the input, Paul.

 

[Perkchiro]

I think the record speaks for itself. I, for one, don't need you to explain it to me.

The gentleman doth protest too much, methinks.

If it doesn't apply to you, then I would suggest you just ignore it. This wasn't addressed to you specifically. And, if you think I protest to much, then I would suggest you quit putting up cocky, self righteous posts that question my motives, character and integrity.

 

[PNewitt]

Paul,

I have to disagree. I think it is serious, since I am a Lesbian it affects my daily life.
.....what I am asking is for people to be aware that hate is not a family value and hate filled words cause harm.

oh, gosh CalifGirl, I am SO sorry. Being insensitive to how you have experienced these words here, was my last intention.

I should have been aware of how words that say certain things can affect people differently. I partly wasn't paying full attention, and I was commenting on how "I" read into (only) the tone of his comments, not the content itself.

I've had one or two threatening-sounding PMs in the past, and it's pretty upsetting. So, my perspective was off, in regard to your take of the same words.

I honor you expressing yourself openly like this, and respect it greatly.
I hope you accept my sincere apology.

Paul.

p.s. remember folks, that we're communicating at just one level above "two cans and a string here".... Temper; and choose your words carefully.

P.p.s. Thanks Arlie. I think you mentioned some home stress--please take it easy, and good luck. Also--thanks for sharing those Steering wheel pads with Luvmycs. What a guy!

 

[joedls]

If it doesn't apply to you, then I would suggest you just ignore it. This wasn't addressed to you specifically. And, if you think I protest to much, then I would suggest you quit putting up cocky, self righteous posts that question my motives, character and integrity.

Hey, no one kicks the pig that doesn't squeal.

 

[PNewitt]

oh, yeah...one more thing...

When I hear (& see) very conservative talk from people, instead of going off on them (like that's gonna work), I just think: "oh, geez..they've been watching WAAY too much Fox News".

gag.

I went to college with one of those conservative pundits you see on Hardball NBC, and I just roll my eyes...

PN.

 

[Perkchiro]

Hey, no one kicks the pig that doesn't squeal.

It's apparent you get kicked often.

 

[joedls]

It's apparent you get kicked often.

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: