1968 Hood Lights

[franklinair]

We have lurkers??

Rob- I can't ask you to remove those clips. That's an original installation, and it would be desecration to disturb, let alone remove. But your generous offer is much appreciated.

Neil

 

[robert campbell]

Lurkers.... What lurkers??

I actually could remove them and have some exact copies made with a laser cutter..

I am not that concerned. As far as I am concerned, you can have them..

Neil, is it past your bedtime? I am way past mine!!

Rob

 

[Mosesatm]

Thanks for the photo Rob.

 

[robert campbell]

I expect to see this picture in a book some day..... Copyrighted.... Lurkers..... What lurkers.....

Rob

 

[Ruppstang]

Here are photos of the San Jose 67 and a Dearborn 68. The 67 has no hole and zinc dichromate plating and friction tape seal under socket. It also is a early harness compare wire clips to the 68. Marty

 

[robert campbell]

Wow! My car is a San Jose car built on 2 January 1968. I do not have the sheetmetal code written down, but it was faithfull to all the other sheetmetal on my car and the steering box tag which is another good date. I am confident it is the orginal hood on the car as it was "gold" in color.

Maybe the light assemblies were replaced at some time, but I doubt it. It, as you saw, has the clips.

I assume the green car was San Jose and the red was Dearborn?

Rob

 

[Ruppstang]

Yes the green car is the 67. It was built Nov. 4th 1966. I have only seen the zinc dichromate on San Jose cars. Rob pull off one of the nuts that hold the turn housing to the hood and see if there is any zinc dichromate under the nut. That might tell us that some San Jose used clips or someone added them. Marty

 

[di81977]

Made me look.

Here is one after 40 years of gunk. Are the 4 plastic wire holders still made/available? I seem to only have one.

david

 

[Ruppstang]

David yours appears to never have had a screw. As I told Rob above sometime take off a nut and look and see if it was plated with zinc dichromate. I do not think the latter style strap wire retainer are reproduced and orignals are getting hard to find. Marty

 

[robert campbell]

David yours appears to never have had a screw. As I told Rob above sometime take off a nut and look and see if it was plated with zinc dichromate. I do not think the latter style strap wire retainer are reproduced and orignals are getting hard to find. Marty

Marty,
So the question is whether the aluminum housing is dichromate? I had mine off in 1989 and more than likely painted them. So if I pull one off and disassemble one and if the dichromate exists on the inside that will be the clue? If they are not dichromate then they are not San Jose? Oh how I love absolutes.....

Rob

 

[Ruppstang]

Marty,
So the question is whether the aluminum housing is dichromate? I had mine off in 1989 and more than likely painted them. So if I pull one off and disassemble one and if the dichromate exists on the inside that will be the clue? If they are not dichromate then they are not San Jose? Oh how I love absolutes.....

Rob

You know as well as I there are very few absolutes in aerias like this. All I am saying is I belive only the west cost manufactuerer used the dichromate plating. Another differance like this is on the wiring harnesses the clips that hold it to the metal are a different style on San Jose cars than on Dearborn and Metchen. But it makes sense that Ford would use a local manufactuerer than shiping everything across the country.I don't know how to tell on your car if the socket retainer clip was orignal or was added later. One more unsolved mystery on your car. Marty

 

[robert campbell]

Marty,
And to further matters, the wiring and sockets are a new repop, The old wiring was not too bad, but I replaced it. Not sure if I kept the old wiring harness and sockets.... Opps..... again...

Rob

 

[robert campbell]

Marty,
And to further matters, the wiring and sockets are a new repop, The old wiring was not too bad, but I replaced it. Not sure if I kept the old wiring harness and sockets.... Opps..... again...

Rob

 

[franklinair]

And while we're on the subject of hood turn signals: (for my own simplistic understanding)
1.) What's the correct finish for the light body for R, T, F manufactured cars?
2.) What's the correct color for the grill in the turn signal light?
3.) San Jose cars; socket retainer clip-yes or no?

I have a copy of the MCA judging rules that I use as a guide when building a car. But it does not give the minute details like we have been discussing on this thread. Where dos one get this type of detailed info??

Neil

 

[Ruppstang]

And while we're on the subject of hood turn signals: (for my own simplistic understanding)
1.) What's the correct finish for the light body for R, T, F manufactured cars?
2.) What's the correct color for the grill in the turn signal light?
3.) San Jose cars; socket retainer clip-yes or no?

I have a copy of the MCA judging rules that I use as a guide when building a car. But it does not give the minute details like we have been discussing on this thread. Where dos one get this type of detailed info??

Neil

1. R= Zinc dicromate T&F= raw pot metal
2. Body color
3. San Jose cars no clips
The above are my thoughts from experance and conversations with other judges.
As I said earlier I would onld deduct for no cilp if there was evidence there had been one installed no matter what plant it was built in.
I became a judge to learn those small datails so I could build my GTA to a higher level. Hope this helps Marty

 

[franklinair]

Thanks Marty. Good concise info.
Is there any documented info for the finite info that the judges use when evaluating/judging concourse level cars? Some of the issues we discuss here are not in the MCA judging info as posted on the MCA website.

Neil (picky-picky-picky) Hoppe

PS: If the hood has the optional striping, is the turn signal light grill still body color? Or the color of the striping?

 

[Ruppstang]

Thanks Marty. Good concise info.
Is there any documented info for the finite info that the judges use when evaluating/judging concourse level cars? Some of the issues we discuss here are not in the MCA judging info as posted on the MCA website.

Neil (picky-picky-picky) Hoppe

PS: If the hood has the optional striping, is the turn signal light grill still body color? Or the color of the striping?

No there is nothing more in the MCA rules. Every thing can not be written or it would fill volumes. The MCA is fortunate to have some of the best people as their judges. Much like the fokes on this site.
If the car has two tone paint option the entire bezel and grill would be black.

 

[J_Speegle]

Thanks Marty. Good concise info.
Is there any documented info for the finite info that the judges use when evaluating/judging concourse level cars? Some of the issues we discuss here are not in the MCA judging info as posted on the MCA website.

Remember that the Judging Rules are a guide to remind the judges of the newer issues or items that they can often miss. We could never carry around a complete guide indicating every detail. I believe we missed the boat many years ago not developing a MCA Restoration Guide for each year that would be updated and sold to fund the program and just refer to those details in the judging sheets - but that is the past. I believe you will see the organization or individuals develop something that expands on what we have now with more details and pictures to support the text either on the MCA site or maybe one run by a couple of head judges

The major forums are a great place to identify new details and subjects while allowing discussion input, discovery and peer review. I can think of ALLOT of details that have made their way into the rules and or general acceptance because of the discussions that happen on the forums.

In any case this would be a giant never ending project and where would one start - with the 64's or just a little but for every class? We will have to wait and see.

 

[Ruppstang]

Remember that the Judging Rules are a guide to remind the judges of the newer issues or items that they can often miss. We could never carry around a complete guide indicating every detail. I believe we missed the boat many years ago not developing a MCA Restoration Guide for each year that would be updated and sold to fund the program and just refer to those details in the judging sheets - but that is the past. I believe you will see the organization or individuals develop something that expands on what we have now with more details and pictures to support the text either on the MCA site or maybe one run by a couple of head judges

The major forums are a great place to identify new details and subjects while allowing discussion input, discovery and peer review. I can think of ALLOT of details that have made their way into the rules and or general acceptance because of the discussions that happen on the forums.

In any case this would be a giant never ending project and where would one start - with the 64's or just a little but for every class? We will have to wait and see.

Well said Jeff.
Maybe the assastant national head judges and their gold cards could work on their model year and submit it yearly at the judges meeting. It really helps me to keep thinking about this stuff through out the year, not just at the two or three national show we can make. Marty

 

[di81977]

I believe we missed the boat many years ago not developing a MCA Restoration Guide for each year that would be updated and sold to fund the program and just refer to those details in the judging sheets - but that is the past.

I am a member of the National Corvette Restorers Society (NCRS) and this is similar to what they do. They still call it a judging guide but it is very detailed, updated regularily and sold on the NCRS website.

I really have not paid attention to MCA until lately. I have had my Corvette judged and found it to be a really great experience. Very similar to MCA with five teams. You get a copy of the scoring sheets and the judges included tons of useful notes and comments.

The never ending issue for NCRS is restamped engine blocks. Lots of discussions about original vs numbers matching. I find it interesting that they won't accept a restamps, but re-paint, re-upholstry, etc is acceptable. There are even techniques available that will add broach marks so that the restamped pad looks original. Judges use special magnifying glasses to examine the pad. Pads are photographed and archieved. It is getting pretty crazy, but in the Corvette world, an original motor adds huge amounts to the value of the car.

My biggest issue, though, is with the lack of a set time limit for judging. It can take hours for a car to be judged. There is another Corvette judging organization, Bloomington Gold, and they do set a limit for each section.

Looking forward to learning more about MCA.

David