1968 Inner Fender VIN

[Mosesatm]

I've never seen a visible VIN on a GT/CS driver's side inner fender. Did someone trim the fender to expose the VIN on this car? Were some VINs visible?
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Ford-Mustan...f6c397f8:g:XNcAAOSw5VFWLpGD&item=321967593464

 

[dalorzo_f]

I have 4 68's, 3 San Jose, one Dearborn.... none of the VIN is visible in the notch on any of them....

That being said, they did put the notch there for a reason and maybe they got that one right. A lot of variability on these cars. The font and stars look correct from memory, can't find my pics of the VINs on my 4 to compare. So if a fake, done well.... it is a mighty clean looking stamp, most of mine are a bit more "wobbly"...

 

[dalorzo_f]

Found one... sorta the same. Interesting that body color was on the engine bay first, then the black over the top... To my eye thre are some subtle difference in the font. The 0 looks a bit thinner on the red one and the R a bit "tighter"... maybe just the skew of the photo. Caveat emptor...

 

[Ruppstang]

I would say it was original. In 67 that fender window was the only viable VIN location. The LH apron was double stamped with one that showed in the window. The RH stamp was hidden under the fender.
In 68 when the visible VIN was moved to the RH dash the visible LH fender stamp was not done leaving the window open on most 68s. Occasionally a worker would miss the correct hidden location and the VIN would be visible in the window. The RH stamp was still hidden on the RH apron in 68 as well.

 

[mbsf1970]

Agreed about differences in "R" and zero but even more telling is the transversal line at top of the "ones"
The VIN in question has perfect 90 degree perpendicular lines at the top of the ones but the second pitcured VIN has diagonal downward bars at top of the ones.....Since they both came from San Jose plant you would figure the same stamp style would be used?

Stephen

 

[dalorzo_f]

The first two and last "1"s look a bit different, but maybe just the blurry pic... If the original VIN tot he car I'd guess a restamp on a new apron... or... mine is a fake!!!

Most of the other VINs I looked at are also a bit wavy, like mine, and the red one looks pretty dead-set-straight...

I'm leaning towards "caveat emptor".

 

[robert campbell]

I agree with Stephen and Rich. This looks like a re-stamp on a replacement apron panel. It looks to perfect to me. I have an old set of stamps that even has a small "script f" that looks just like the Ford stamp.

Now the fun is if the rest of the car matches the VIN? The VIN in the dash is easy to remove and put on another car.

If I was looking at this car I would look at all 4 aprons. Sometimes the VIN is stamped on both the rear aprons in a similar location and I have seen all 4 aprons stamped. The passenger rear apron is stamped in a lot of 1968/67 Mustangs I have seen.

The next step would be to see if the sheet metal date codes on this car are similar in time frame as the VIN build date. This takes some effort, but I would look this car over very carefully. If the bulk of the sheet metal stamps are after the build date...... Be careful.

Rob

 

[dalorzo_f]

You can get a new dash VIN tag pretty easy.... not saying its right or legal, but....

They note "The paintwork, in the correct color per the Deluxe Marti Report" so I'd bet a replacement panel, as is not uncommon... odd they don't post the Marti in the ad.

Sent them a question asking if they know if the apron has been replaced, will see if they reply...

 

[dalorzo_f]

hmmmm..... email bounced from Ebay...

" ----- The following addresses had permanent fatal errors -----
<alex@rbcarcollection.com>
(reason: 550-5.7.1 Unauthenticated email from yahoo.com is not accepted due to domain's)"

:undecided

 

[J_Speegle]

If the drivers side inner fender panel VIN is visible or not depends on where the car was built in 68. Something that came up years ago when Jim Smart and I were walking a show. "Normal" depends on where you got your experience with these cars it seems

Currently have examples of about 300 San Jose 68s and none have a visible VIN in that location.

Would not surprise me if someone in a area that had exposed VINs there or experiences with 65-7 Mustangs might assume that there should be when doing a repair or something else

 

[dalorzo_f]

GT/CS is San Jose... and agree it is generally the case that the '68 San Jose VIN is not visible in the notch... and this is a result of repair/rework.

 

[Ruppstang]

Nice detective work guys.

 

[dalorzo_f]

Got a reply....

"Hello! Thanks for your questions on the Mustang. While I have not removed the front fenders to access the hidden vin locations, I can say with confidence that the vin matches the dash, trim tag and front apron. There is a Marti report as well to confirm the specification on the car, so there's no doubt of its legitimacy. I will send you some photos shortly. Please let me know if you have any other questions on the car. We are happy to help. "

I advised them that replacement aprons are not uncommon, but that the font looked a bit off, and to be aware of it for a potential savvy buyer that may question it...

 

[robert campbell]

If you jack the car up, remove the right front tire, clean up the bottom side of the apron, you can hold a piece paper up and rub it with a pencil lead and get a fairly good rendering of the VIN stamp. Sheesh that was a long sentence!!!

I have done this a few times and even if you cannot get the number completely most times you can get enough to verify it is the same. Might take a couple tries.

I did this for the car that Neil bought here in Washington that he had me inspect. Also verified most of the sheet metal date codes and they were in the range with the build date. The Marti report is not the end all that people think. It is just one more piece in the verification process.

Rob

 

[sportyworty]

Just for interest sake quite often the 68 Metuchen cars have exposed vin
I have had a few Dearborn with partial expose but never a San Jose. The vin is suspect

 

[franklinair]

1.) A VIN (windshield tag) is removable and can be transplanted.
2.) VIN's can be stamped on replacement panels. (JC Whitney used to sell a stamp set VERY similar to Ford's.)
3.) Rob's point of doing a rub on the right inner fender panel would be in order.
4.) Date codes on sheet metal panels should be checked.

A few possibilities:
1.) A bogus recreation. (forgery and illegal)
2.) Left inner fender panel replaced & restamped. (The original stamping should have been cut out & saved.)
3.) The VIN on the right inner fender panel MUST be present. (If the font on the right side matches the questionable font of the left side, the car may have suffered a severe front end crash and had BOTH inner fender panels replaced.

I have seen, and know of such atrocities having been done.

Neil (aka Doubting Thomas)

 

[Nigel Hannam]

My vin code has rust holes either side, a new panel will have no vin code, do i cut the old vin number
out and cut and weld it into new panel. IS IT LEGAL

 

[CougarCJ]

My vin code has rust holes either side, a new panel will have no vin code, do i cut the old vin number
out and cut and weld it into new panel. IS IT LEGAL

You would have to ask a Barrister in England. Probably safe to do, no deception is intended.

 

[dalorzo_f]

A grey area which always raised the "how much is too much" question.

If you slowly replace every piece of metal in small pieces, over time, no one cares. If you end up at the same place by cutting out the VIN and patching it right back in the same place, no one blinks...

I got around it by leaving it hanging by a thread while replacing the apron, basically a cut out and replace, but technically it never left the car so was not "removed and/or replaced".

A "letter of the law" vs. "intent of the law" issue.