1968 What is one of the earliest California Special VIN numbers

[nvr-enuf]

Hello Everyone,

I recently purchased a deck lid which I thought was original to a California special but after further review (and after payment), I have confirmed that the deck lid is similar to an original California special lid should be but is not 100% the same. Per discussion with owner of the car in which this deck lid was removed, he now is stating that the car is believed to be a proto type California Special. I thought about spending the money on a Marti report to fully identify if this is the case but for now, I am curious if any members can state what they know are "early" California Special cars.

I have the VIN of the car that the deck lid came off of, sequential number is 112477

Could this car be a proto type California Special based on that build number?

Assuming this is a lid from a proto California special, if you are interested in buying please PM me. I have a 68 Shelby which a proto type CS lid does not do me any good. I bought the CS lid for my Shelby since they are nearly identical and one can be easily converted to match the other.

Thanks
Scott

 

[robert campbell]

Scott,
This will certainly start some interesting discussion. It has been stated that the first 14 GT/CS cars had "handmade California Special Scripts". The 14 cars that were at the debut of the cars on February 15th 1968 were very loaded optioned cars. These cars would IMO never had been "ordered" as a GT/CS Mustang and would have been pulled from the line and converted similar to a prototype build. I had and have now sold a car that was VIN number 123143. It was a January 2 build date and was not ordered as a GT/CS car but as a Gold Nugget Special. But it had all of the correct stuff on the car and IMO was a converted car, but still a GT/CS that came down the line and was sold as a GT/CS. But very difficult to prove.

That said there are a few cars that were entered into the registry long ago with December 1967 build dates that I suspect your car will have based on its VIN number.

I firmly believe that the earliest GT/CS cars would not be identified as a GT/CS by a Marti report. That is my opinion only. Arlie has a registry and there are 2 cars older than your VIN and two cars that start with 112. all are not verified by a Marti report. Eight of these cars were built in December. I truly believe that with eight cars built in December that all are not fakes or clones.

These early cars have been an ongoing topic for quite some time.

Rob

 

[Mosesatm]

Unfortunately, there isn't a definitive answer to that question, but yes, it could be one of the very early cars.

The earliest Marti-confirmed car we show is 130315, but we have 12 cars with earlier VINs that are probably California Specials even though they don't show as such on the Marti reports.

112477 would become the third earliest, with the other two being 104730 and 108120.


ETA,
Shoot, Rob just snuck in and stole my glory!

 

[1968Cally]

My GT/CS was built on 2/8/68 - one day ahead of schedule. So, if I understand correctly, it would have been among the first 200 built by the 2/15/68 Introduction to dealers. Is that right? With a Vin of 140036, is there anyway to determine if it was say, the 99th, 130th or 189th built?

With it built a week before the dealer intro, I would imagine that it would be the 150th - 200th one built.

Just wondering...

Dave

 

[Mosesatm]

Dave,
Before Rob responds......:tongue:

For a number of reasons, one being that the VINs don't necessarily correspond to build dates, there is no real way to know where certain cars fall in the production calendar. As an example your car was scheduled for the 9th but was built on the 8th. We have cars with VINs higher than yours with earlier build dates.
I've tried to get Kevin Marti to run a report listing all GT/CS VINs but he won't, or can't, do so.

Right now your car is #59 in the registry.
We have 1586 out of 4118+ cars, which is roughly 38%. If we use that ratio and evenly spread it over all the cars (which may not be an accurate method) the math shows that your car should be one of the first 200.

Mike agreed to let me send site members a scaled down version of the registry as either an .xls, or .pdf. Just shoot me a note and I'll email it to you.

 

[1968Cally]

Dave,
Before Rob responds......:tongue:

For a number of reasons, one being that the VINs don't necessarily correspond to build dates, there is no real way to know where certain cars fall in the production calendar. As an example your car was scheduled for the 15th but was built on the 8th. We have cars with VINs higher than yours with earlier build dates.
I've tried to get Kevin Marti to run a report listing all GT/CS VINs but he won't, or can't, do so.

Right now your car is #59 in the registry.
We have 1586 out of 4118+ cars, which is roughly 38%. If we use that ratio and evenly spread it over all the cars (which may not be an accurate method) the math shows that your car should be one of the first 200.

Mike agreed to let me send site members a scaled down version of the registry as either an .xls, or .pdf. Just shoot me a note and I'll email it to you.

Thanks. My car was built on the 8th but scheduled for the 9th and the data plate shows it as the 9th.

 

[Mosesatm]

Thanks for catching the date mistake. I've since changed it in my post.
Attached is first page of the registry.

 

[rvrtrash]

Someone will correct me if I'm wrong, I'm sure, but I thought I'd throw out another aspect of the conversation. The CS trunk lid is essentially the same as a Shelby convertible trunk lid, and the Shelby's would have come out in Sept. 1967, like other new Mustangs. I would think that any "prototype" lids would have been long gone by the time the CS was being considered for development. I would guess that if the trunk lid isn't a true "Ford" trunk lid, that it's someone's repop, even if it's a very good one.

Steve

 

[Ruppstang]

Someone will correct me if I'm wrong, I'm sure, but I thought I'd throw out another aspect of the conversation. The CS trunk lid is essentially the same as a Shelby convertible trunk lid, and the Shelby's would have come out in Sept. 1967, like other new Mustangs. I would think that any "prototype" lids would have been long gone by the time the CS was being considered for development. I would guess that if the trunk lid isn't a true "Ford" trunk lid, that it's someone's repop, even if it's a very good one.

Steve

++++++1
The CS lid was a produced Shelby part.
I think the lid in question is a reproduction.

 

[robert campbell]

Someone will correct me if I'm wrong, I'm sure, but I thought I'd throw out another aspect of the conversation. The CS trunk lid is essentially the same as a Shelby convertible trunk lid, and the Shelby's would have come out in Sept. 1967, like other new Mustangs. I would think that any "prototype" lids would have been long gone by the time the CS was being considered for development. I would guess that if the trunk lid isn't a true "Ford" trunk lid, that it's someone's repop, even if it's a very good one.

Steve

Steve,
I think you are correct and a great observation of the parts as they were produced.

Rob

 

[nvr-enuf]

Thanks everyone - My issue is that the seller is admit the lid came with the car from the factory and he is not giving my $$$ back. Since you stated there is nothing on the marti report that will state if it is or isn't a CS, then I am not going to spend the $ on getting the report to argue my point with the seller.

I did check with the lead company who made Repo lids as earlier as the late 70's - the owner confirmed it is not his lid and did not know who's lid it is.

 

[franklinair]

Has anyone seen the Marti Report for this car (112477)? Is it or is it not a CS?

Neil

 

[robert campbell]

Thanks everyone - My issue is that the seller is admit the lid came with the car from the factory and he is not giving my $$$ back. Since you stated there is nothing on the marti report that will state if it is or isn't a CS, then I am not going to spend the $ on getting the report to argue my point with the seller.

I did check with the lead company who made Repo lids as earlier as the late 70's - the owner confirmed it is not his lid and did not know who's lid it is.

We may have misled you. If you provide the complete VIN number I have seen Arlie pony up for a standard Marti report, but you will not lose much to do it yourself. They are not that expensive and it "may" reveal that it is a GT/CS. With its very early VIN number it almost certainly is a December 1967 build. My guess is that it will not be identified as a GT/CS, but never say never.

We have seen many of a seller make claims like he has. Sometimes correct and sometimes not.

Rob

 

[Toy68CS]

Just curious what is different that gives you the impression it is not original?

 

[robert campbell]

Just curious what is different that gives you the impression it is not original?

Bruce,
Great Point! I think we need to see some close up pictures of the trunk lid.

Rob

 

[Mosesatm]

Here is the thread with photos.
The deck lid has a Ford part number on it.
http://californiaspecial.com/forums/showthread.php?p=110618#post110618

Here is a mirror image of the part number

 

[Ruppstang]

I believe it was molded off a steel deck lid.

 

[TraveledGTCS]

Several years ago, 20 plus, I had to have my trunk lid replaced and one was ordered from Tony Branda and it had the center brace in it. With the third brace in it, it doesn't seem to bow as much over the years. The original had a bow as much as 2 inches plus in the center. The one I have you can see the patter of the fiber glass in it, where the originals are somewhat smooth. So maybe the same happened to this one. They just used the frame braces and put fiber glass over them.

I'd attach a photo, but I'm currently having the engine compartment repainted, and while that's going on having them detail the engine while it's out. The engine compartment panel paint had spider cracks on both sides. Plus the hood had a crack in the paint a couple inches in front of the hood lock. So having that taken care of also.

(I have also entered these comments under 'Confirmation of California Special Trunk Lid')

Bill