Why there wasn't a 427 for 1968.

[PNewitt]

I found something interesting that I've never read before about the use of the 427 in the 1968 Mustang. I have stacks of old car magazines from the 60's, and this was in the September 1967 MOTORCADE magazine, pg. 43, Mustang ('68 Cars Preview article) :

"...."The all-out 427 (425hp) is also a possibility if the market demands it; but there would need to be extensive body front structure changes for exhaust clearance. Ford will go slow on this. Their engineers have got all they can handle just tooling up the new safety and smog stuff!"

The 400hp 427 was slated for production in the fall of '67, and it's in the '68 literature (printed in the late summer of '67), but Ford seemed to have pulled the plug on it right at the beginning. Perhaps marketing said it wasn't going to sell. And, maybe they really had the 428 on the sidelines for April, cause Little Red, (shown off in late '67) had a 428 with 427 heads (at one time); so the "8" might have been less tempermental than the "7".

Interesting stuff. Too bad we didn't get a screaming 427 GT/CS.

Paul N.

 

[teamlo]

Interesting reading Paul. Makes you wonder though about the 1968 Cougar GT-E. Of course, we know that the majority (if you can even use that word, since there were so few built) of these were built with the W-code 427, with the switch to the CJ when that became available. It would seem to me that the GT-E was a niche car, and Ford must have known that the car wasn't going to sell in large numbers. But they built it anyway. Very curious.

 

[68gt390]

I had also read some where that Ford did not consider the 427 to be cost effective for the Mustang either. Would of been nice though to have seen a few of them produced.

Don :wink:

 

[teamlo]

Although the 1968 W-code 427 engine was available in the 1968 Cougar
GT-E, it was NOT the 427 engine that was well known and loved from 1963 to 1966. The engine was essentially choked with a hydraulic lifter camshaft, restrictive exhaust manifolds, and was only available with the C6 automatic transmission. The 427 was born and bred as a high-revving powerhouse, with a short stroke configuration which lent itself to sustained high rpm running. This configuration was not ideal for a street engine. The 428CJ, with it's longer stroke, was much more adept at producing power where it's needed on the street, at LOW RPMs. The 427 engine was also comparitively expensive to produce.

428CJ.................probably the best overall street performance package ever produced by any manufacturer during the 1960's.

Just my 0.02

 

[PNewitt]

I think they figured that the Cougar GT-E buyers would opt for the 427's cost, since it was a niche-luxury version of the Mustang. I would like to know how many of those GT-Es they actually made...

The big car Ford (LTD) also had this 427, as well as the Fairlane (hardtop only). This was the less-than-blowout-perf. version.

Here are the specs for this 427 (source: Motor Trend 1968 World Automotive Yearbook);

390hp @ 5600 rpm, torque-460@3200rpm, 4.23 x 3.78 bore & stroke, 10.9 comp, 1-4bbl., (proposed Mustang version)3.50 (c-6) auto only.

The Fairlane had a 3.25 auto only, the Fords has 2.80 auto., opt 3.25 auto.

An LTD 427 would probably pull ahead at freeway speed, loaded with a family of four and tons of vacation luggage, like nobody's business! This would be the car dad loved to "put the pedal to the metal" on. LOL!!

Paul N.

 

[patty.dilabio]

gte info

Hi to every one on this thread.The GTE Cougar was very limited and Kevin Marti has exact numbers if you need them..seems like 211 sticks in my mind, The 427 was expensive to build then and still is now,Ford most likely printed the sales stuff early and could'nt change it in time-With the correct gear ratio,it is not that outrageous on the street,but a 428 was so much cheaper,and the new engines were under developement for 1969/70 so it made sense to use the 428,and phase out the 427,then bring in the Boss series-the 385 series-and the cleveland.

 

[PNewitt]

Hi Ants!

Thanks for the info.

Here is the Wikipedia page for the 427:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ford_FE_engine#427

I think the 427 and also the TP (Tunnel Port) 302 were dropped because of cost, and the changes at Ford for the '69 Model Year.

It would be interesting to know exactly when that happened. I also wonder if the strike in Nov 67 had something to do with cost-cutting these hipo mills, since production parts were dissappearing from Jan-April, too,

I have concept art for steering wheel centers for TP 302 - engined Mustangs.

Paul N.

p.s. I'm wondering if it was the new, '68 smog specs that kept it out of the Mustang. The 3:50 ratio might have pushed it too far. Maybe that was the last straw. It's just mysterious why is all of a sudden dissappeared, but was in Fairlanes, GT-Es, and the big car Fords. But--we'll find out, won't we?

 

[CougarCJ]

Some GT-E information

Let me chime in here too:wink:

Kevin Marti published a "Cougar..By the Numbers 1967-1973. This was book #2 after the Mustang edition.

W code GT-E production:
101 Standard Hardtops
256 XR7's

http://www.theclassiccougarnetwork.com/gte/

Check around on this site, it explains and lists many of the options and features of the GT-E's.

In at least one magazine test, the test GT-E had the standard 3.50 peg leg rear end. This lack of traction can only hurt the quarter mile times.

A Ford numbered Holley List 4088 carburetor is a tough unit to find. The 600cfm rating is a bit low for this engine. Many current GT-E owners have installed CJ exhaust manifolds and the 428CJ Holley carburetor (735cfm).

I have a friend that has recently completed a restoration of his 2nd GT-E, he expects to run 13.00 in the quarter mile when it next competes. He competes in Factory Stock Drags.

 

[PNewitt]

Thank you, and what a really neat website! Everyone should give it a look!

I think that the GT-E was a really under-rated Ford (Merc), for what it was. If you think about it, you've got a fire-breathing 427--a lot like the 427 Cobra--in a Cougar, which isn't too far from a Mustang. It really deserves more recognition than it's gotten over the years.

I don't mean to disagree with the use of bigger Holleys, but Fred Goodell (Shelby's chief engineer--1966-70) told me on the phone years ago, that a 650 is plenty for a 390, and that 735 for a 390, OR 428 CJ was over-carburation. The trick is to not overload your fuel to air ratio, and that you'll get more HP out of less CFM. So, more is not always better in CFM (how many times have you heard: "hey, man, I got a 750 double pumper on that baby". Then he takes off, and you see liguid gas flying out of the tailpipe....).

I couldn't give you exact CFM for a 427, but look at what stock Cobra roadsters used in the late 60's.

Paul N.

 

[rvrtrash]

I don't mean to disagree with the use of bigger Holleys, but Fred Goodell (Shelby's chief engineer--1966-70) told me on the phone years ago, that a 650 is plenty for a 390, and that 735 for a 390, OR 428 CJ was over-carburation. The trick is to not overload your fuel to air ratio, and that you'll get more HP out of less CFM. So, more is not always better in CFM (how many times have you heard: "hey, man, I got a 750 double pumper on that baby". Then he takes off, and you see liguid gas flying out of the tailpipe....).

Paul N.

I have to partially disagree. Sizing a carb. to the engine is important and you can easily overcarb it, but the engine size alone is not the determining factor. You also have to factor in max rpm and engine efficiency. Additionally, Ford had a habit of undercarbing most of their engines to make them more streetable for the masses, so a small increase in cfm would almost always yield better performance. The factory carb for a Boss 351 was 750 cfm, because it was a big port, big valve, big exhaust, high reving engine. Shelby put tri-powers on some of his race cars that had 3-350 cfm carbs on a 289 because they were specialized race motors that worked at high rpm. Just something else to think about.

Steve

 

[di81977]

If anyone is interested, the Nov 2006 issue of Hemmings Muscle Machines has an article on the 1968 Cougar GT-E.

David

 

[PNewitt]

I absolutely agree with you, Steve. You clarified my point. If the "plumbing" is there, bigger heads, intake, etc., then it makes perfect sense to go bigger on the carb. The air/fuel ratio is critical for maximum performance.

Fred Goodell did tell me that a 650 was "right" for a factory 428CJ. We talked this out for about a half an hour on the phone (about 12 years ago).

What I was talking about--is that in the 70's and 80's guys were plopping a 750 Holley on a stock 302, or 351, and expecting a lot of immediate HP. Then it would bog out, etc...

Paul.

 

[PNewitt]

If anyone is interested, the Nov 2006 issue of Hemmings Muscle Machines has an article on the 1968 Cougar GT-E.

David

There's a closer tie to the limited editions of the '68 Cougars and the GT/CS than most people would realize. I'll be talking about this in my book.

They are very cool cars!!

In fact--if I remember this right; they told the '67-68 Trans Am Cougars to "cool it", because they were making the Mustangs look bad.

Paul.

 

[teamlo]

Ford essentially killed the Trans-Am Cougar's chances of winning a championship back in the day. Kind of like "team orders", which some may remember happened several years ago with the Ferrari F1 team. You have to let the big name guy win, even though the underdog may actually be the stronger one.
This is my third reply in this particular thread. I would LOVE for there to have been some factory 427 Mustangs in 1968. We all thought maybe there were, until Kevin Marti taught us different. We have the 428CJ, and for me, that is the ultimate factory Mustang, in my opinion certainly. Others will surely argue the merits of the Boss 302, Boss 429, various Shelbys, etc. Bottom line, we're all in this hobby together, and I am a fan of all Mustangs, from '64 1/2 through modern day, 6-cylinder to 429. I love 'em all.

 

[Mustanger]

The Famed W-code ...

Even though Kevin Marti revealed that there were no factory 427s in '68 Mustangs, that doesn't mean that 427s couldn't be found in them ... eg, Shelby, H&M and other aftermarket speed shops (and possibly some Ford dealers) could've set you up with a 427 package if your little heart desired one ... check it out:

http://www.ponysite.de/427_68_powerhorse.htm

http://auto.howstuffworks.com/1968-shelby-cobra-gt-500-kr.htm

... also, here's an interesting article on Cougars:

http://www.mustangandfords.com/featuredvehicles/127_0212_35_years_cougar_history/

 

[Mustanger]

... and wait, there's more ...

... and here's another famous 427 in a Mustang - Shelby, that is:

http://www.mikesclassiccars.net/viewlisting.php?listing_id=42132

... although this was probably added later, I'm sure it's a blast to drive!!! ...

 

[Mustanger]

... and wait, there's STILL more ...

Marti even backs up the what-if theory: “Ford might have built them in such small numbers that they never showed up as a Code, kind of like the ’67 Shelbys that had an S engine code (390) and were, in fact, packing the 428.”

http://www.mustangmonthly.com/thehistoryof/mustang_facts/

Check these stories out ...

Story No. 1

"I heard about two of them in California! An MCA Gold Judge there knows about them. He has inspected and documented them. Both these cars are drag cars and have a W in the fifth digit of their VINs."


Story No. 2

“Well, I’ve seen one! It was a Highland Green ’68 hardtop with big Cobras painted on the quarter-panels. This guy used to drag race this car back in 1972 or 1973. I have no idea what happened to the car. It was a W-Code car with four-speed. It had dual fours and ran the quarter in the 10.90s.”

 

[PNewitt]

Realy interesting information, Mustanger. I appreciate your enthusiasm and taking the time to search for these "W" Mustangs!!

It looks like they made a couple (or a few more) test mules in late '67, and then decided that they weren't feasable. To advertise it in the literature. they'd have to make at least a couple to make sure it was going to work.

When it was decided to drop that engine, they probably ended up at the drag strip. Another way to "test" them for production.

I'd still like to know exactly when, and why they were dropped for the Mustang, but were in the GT-E, and Fairlane.

I wonder if the GT-E program was created to absorb some "already-produced" 427s meant for the Mustang? Maybe some Cougar folks would know that history--and within what time frame the GT-E was produced.

Thanks!
Paul N.

 

[CougarCJ]

I think that Kevin Marti has determined that the only 427 installed by the factory in 1968, was in a Cougar GT-E. No Fairlanes or anything else.

The Side Oiler 427 blocks were cast in several batches. I know a guy that collects the dates of such things.

The early engines had C8AE-6090-J heads, these had 14 bolt exhaust manifold holes from the factory.
Later W code cylinder heads were the CJ variety C8OE-6090-N but with the 390GT 14 bolt exhaust manifold holes.

The W code 427 in 1968, used the standard cast iron 390GT manifolds like the S code Mustangs.

All of these 427 Cougars came with the same thermactor smog system as the 390GT/428CJ Mustangs in 1968.

 

[PNewitt]

I think that Kevin Marti has determined that the only 427 installed by the factory in 1968, was in a Cougar GT-E. No Fairlanes or anything else.

Thank you for all this new information. I got the Fairlane info from an old Automotive Yearbook--that also listed the 427 Mustang (prematurely). So, both sets of info are now moot.

So--that means that the Fairlane, too, was supposed to get the 427--and didn't in '68. So--perhaps those 427s might have been sitting in production, and it might have prompted the whole GT-E program. A limited edition established by a production change.

I bet a ride in a 427 Cougar is something no one would soon forget. WOW.
I remember my time in a '70 429SCJ Torino, and that was too awesome.

Now...we need a Fairlane expert to come forward and explain why they dropped the 427 in those cars, too, for the 1968 model year. Hello???
This is why ALL of the Ford/Merc lines intertwine in historical information, and can answer questions about Mustangs.

Well--at the very least, via the info we got from Kevin Marti, there were NO 427 GT/CS cars ever built, from the factory.

What a shame.

Paul N.