1968 Cali Special Poss Engine Replacement - Questions?

[robert campbell]

Option #3 Rebuilt entire current engine - $2,100
Rebuilt top half and bottom half. Engine smoking for about a year leading up to the fateful day the head gaskets blew got me worrying, and I think it might need a rebuild.

Option #4 - Rebuild current engine and add headers maybe even exhaust - $2,100 + $300 headers + $450 exhaust = $2,850
This option will increase horsepower by 25 hp and torque by about 20

Brandon,
Option 3 is ok, but option 4 with the right cam and ported heads will REALLY wake her up!! They will add about a $1k to the cost by avoiding head work on your current heads. You will need a bigger carb in my mind also. Intake is just fine. Easy add of 75 hp vice 25hp. Maybe a bit more!

In option 1 the MSD box is a 6AL and has a "soft touch" RPM limiter to ensure you do not over rev your new motor in a flaming burn out. Good investment. Your current intake will work fine in option 1 but again a bigger carb will help. You can also eliminate the 5 speed until you can afford one. Alternator and pulleys can wait. Radiator is a must if your is old. If it is clean and maybe been worked on you may be able to use. But I would not. If your clutch works good now, with no chatter and stuff, you can reuse until you go to a 5 speed.

This will carve around $2k from the $10k. Summit Racing sells the 306 Ford crate motor. And a huge selection of great heads for option 4.

Rob

 

[p51]

Re:

To use the BMW analogy, unless you buy a BMW your Stang ain't going to stop as fast as it. Period. Its an "I might get hit by a meteor" rationale...

Ummm.... no, its really not the same rationale at all. Comparing it to "being hit by a meteor" is ridiculous. The *general* technology of today's cars' braking systems are ~40yrs advanced over drum brakes. Its a question of reducing, not eliminating, the difference. A significant number of people today drive as if everyone has a modern car, add in texting, and the "oh-sh*t-traffic-has-just-stopped" effect...

If I were to extrapolate your argument (in a similar fashion as the meteor comment) about having drum brakes making you a safer driver because you are aware of the deficits of the technology, well then you should disable your rear brakes, disconnect your headlights, and drive without any insurance at all - that would make you really safe.

As for driving in the bay area being staid, well drive from San Jose to Santa Cruz in the winter, right before/after rush hour. Talk about mountain driving, brake fade, and lots of idiots who think its their own private grand prix course...

 

[brandosme]

Brandon,
Option 3 is ok, but option 4 with the right cam and ported heads will REALLY wake her up!! They will add about a $1k to the cost by avoiding head work on your current heads. You will need a bigger carb in my mind also. Intake is just fine. Easy add of 75 hp vice 25hp. Maybe a bit more!

Rob

I think I settled on the rebuild for the time being with some upgrades here and there is the engine allows it.
- I'm looking at rebuilding entire engine, and ported heads + cam. (No new headers, no new exhaust)

One of my main concerns is how loud the car will be after modifications (ported heads/cam). Currently, its not very loud in comparison to a classic car with headers/flowmasters. It has a sweet classic car sound, not whiny but with a little growl. I may be in the minority but I do not want my car to sound like a hot rod. It''s already loud enough in IMO with a 4 speed on the freeway and I would like to be able to hold a conversation while cruising around and also I don't wake my entire neighborhood up while driving home late.

Any recommendations on "the right cam" I am looking for? And how much louder will the car be after ported heads?

Thanks
Brandon

How much louder do you think

 

[CougarCJ]

My guess is the pulse may change, but the overall loudness will remain the same.

If you want to keep the tone down and mellow, stay with 3 chamber turbo mufflers.

The E303 cam from Ford has been recommended to me.

 

[robert campbell]

Brandon,
No change in sound by porting. All about the mufflers as Scott says. Ok, we are zeroing in. Rebuild of current engine, but you need to see what its bore is now. My guess is it will be ok, but we need to verify.

To not buck up for headers of some kind is a major power looser. If you rebuild the motor and port the heads, headers are just a small step in dollars. They will work with your current intake and carb.

I can help you with cam selection. Are you going to port your heads? or go after market?

Rob

 

[Mosesatm]

Brandon,
The man knows of which he speaks.

Small block Fords are severely choked by their heads so your best bang for the buck would be aftermarket heads. Porting the existing heads will help considerably but all the porting in the world won't match new aluminum heads.

Headers would also help but they are louder than exhaust manifolds because they are much less restrictive. If you don't want to do the header thing you may want to consider installing used 351W or 289 HiPo manifolds.

 

[brandosme]

Brandon,
No change in sound by porting. All about the mufflers as Scott says. Ok, we are zeroing in. Rebuild of current engine, but you need to see what its bore is now. My guess is it will be ok, but we need to verify.

To not buck up for headers of some kind is a major power looser. If you rebuild the motor and port the heads, headers are just a small step in dollars. They will work with your current intake and carb.

I can help you with cam selection. Are you going to port your heads? or go after market?

Rob

Ok now we are getting somewhere it feels like. I am not opposed to headers at all, but like I said I want to keep the noise level down in the car to preserve the classic cruiser feel. I think the answer lies somewhere in between exhaust (hopefully leaving as is) and cam choice which we can decide once I figure out my next question below.

My mechanic and I want to pull off the value covers and take a look at the heads and see what's going on down there. If its not that bad, he can just do a standard value job and get the car back on the road. (I want to do more). However if it doesn't look good like I'm assuming, we are going to look at the bore to verify it is ok bore more. I want increase the bore and add headers.

What do you mean by "Are you going to port your heads? or go after market?" I'll need some more info on this.

How does this differ from what I described above?

 

[franklinair]

Look at it this way: An engine is a large air pump. The easier you make it to suck in air, burn it, and let the burned air out the exhaust, the more power you can achieve.
'Porting' means to grind out the exhaust path (exhaust ports) to a larger diameter, thus letting the air out with less restriction (letting the engine breathe easier), thus developing more power due to higher efficiency.
After market heads are manufactured to allow easier airflow (in & out), letting the engine (air pump) develope more power. This approach is more costly- but GREATLY improves the engine's efficiency & power output compared to 'porting'.
An engine has 4 functions: SUCK=intake, SQUEEZE=compression, BURN=iigniting fuel/air, BLOW=exhaust.
Exhaust manifolds can offer the same airflow restriction. That's why Headers are so popular.
FYI; a jet engine operates on the same 4 principles

Neil

 

[Mosesatm]

Brandon,
What does your mechanic hope to see by removing the valve covers?

 

[robert campbell]

Arlie is correct that just removing the valve covers will not help much. You need to get the heads off to access the engine and its condition/bore size. Since you seem to have blown the head gaskets, they have to come off. You already mention you need to do this.

Headers may add just a bit of “tinging” sound at idle, but they in themselves do not make a huge amount of additional noise. Mufflers, Mufflers mufflers!! We can make this as quiet as you want by proper muffler selection.

You can have someone port your “current” heads and put in bigger valves. Some guys do this to preserve a vintage original look. There are known reliable companies on the internet that do this. But it is just about the same cost as buying some of the upgraded heads available from Ford or Edelbrock. Aluminum heads reduce weight and allow a bit more power than iron heads as you can increase the advance more without detonation. But not that much more.

Your next step is to get he heads off. If the engine is already .040 over, then you need a new block in my opinion. I bet it is standard bore and you are ok. A good rebuild with the right cam and better heads, with headers, will add a huge amount of power for the buck! And a huge smile on your face!! You can reuse the carb and intake. A bigger carb later will wake up even more, but we need to decide that now and cam properly.

The below headers are on both my cars!


http://www.fordpowertrain.com/347step.htm

Pictures of the ground clearance. Notice Power steering ram connect point on frame. These headers clear the ram without dropping it!!

 

[joedls]

You've gotten some great advice here from people that know what they speak of. One thing I would suggest is to think of your upgrades as a package. To me, it doesn't make sense to add a high-performance cam if you're going to restrict the exhaust. If the sound is the most important factor to you, then I would suggest not wasting your money on a cam. A high-performance cam can wake a car up, but without proper intake and exhaust, I believe you'll be disappointed.

 

[robert campbell]

Joe is right on!! Have a package in mind as a goal.

Rob

 

[brandosme]

I meant pull off the heads before (not valve covers) was trying to get out a quick message while at work... my bad.

To me, it doesn't make sense to add a high-performance cam if you're going to restrict the exhaust.

When your talking about "restricting the exhaust", your referring to me not porting/replacing the heads, right. Not leaving my current exhaust setup right?

I'm definitely planning on getting either porting the heads or replacing them all together. I was getting confused of the distinction between headers and porting the heads, all clear now.

I know I have dual exhaust right now, not sure if it came standard or if its aftermarket.

General question - Do mufflers have any effect on exhaust flow/HP?

I can't wait to get this package started.

 

[joedls]

When your talking about "restricting the exhaust", your referring to me not porting/replacing the heads, right. Not leaving my current exhaust setup right?

I'm definitely planning on getting either porting the heads or replacing them all together. I was getting confused of the distinction between headers and porting the heads, all clear now.

I was actually talking about your complete exhaust system (headers vs. manifolds, piping size, mufflers), but you're correct in thinking about working on your exhaust ports as well.

General question - Do mufflers have any effect on exhaust flow/HP?

I can't wait to get this package started.

They can if your current mufflers are too restrictive.

 

[robert campbell]

Brandon,
Where did you go?? I am ready to spend your money!! Love to spend other peoples money!!

Finishing up a Modern Driveline Hydraulic clutch conversion on the 1967 Fastback. More later!

Rob