1968 Car Show Judging

[robert campbell]

I posted this, this morning in response to some thoughts on stock cars, tasteful departures, and concourse stuff. I thought if might generate some thoughts from the site. I co-founded the Mustang club in my area and we went through all sorts of growing pains. I lifted it and gave it its own subject line. Below is just one chapter.

Joey,
For local shows and fun, your tasteful departures from stock will not hurt you at a car show. Sometimes a "Mustang" only car show might put you in a modified category vice stock. This brings me to a story. Groan.......

When a good friend of mine and myself formed the Kitsap Mustang Club in Bremerton WA. in 1985, we struggled a bit upfront with our annual Mustang show. I opposed modified cars in the stock classes. I owned a highly modified 1967 Fastback and quickly realized that its modifications made it almost an automatic winner in the stock class. I moved my car out and pre-judged other cars to ensure that the stock class competed against other stock looking cars in all years and body styles. This was not a concourse show by any means and the awards were "participant" choice. But I found fair is fair and this leveled the playing field a lot.

We also had some heartache with the GT/CS and HCS Mustangs. Their stock look was head and shoulders over a basic coupe. We proposed and implemented moving the GT/CS and HCS cars into our Boss/Shelby class. Again, we prejudged the cars as they arrived. This was not a huge show, but we would get up to 300 cars.

This was the late 80's and a well known red GT/CS drove in. When we told the owner he was in the Boss/Shelby/GT/CS class, he read us up one side and down the other! He was not happy! But it was clearly stated on our application forms. He had drove from Canada. He was pissed!

His car was candy apple red with black interior and in immaculate condition. That day there were 12 to 15 cars that showed up in this Shelby/Boss/GT/CS class. A freshly finished and detailed 1969 Boss 429 was in his class, but it was picked as best of show. Another thing we implemented is if you one best of show, that was your only award.

So as it worked out the GT/CS won the Boss/Shelby/GT/CS class that day! The same angry owner came up to my friend and I after the show and just blubbered all over us. How proud he was of this trophy and how much it meant to him. He beat at least 12 Shelby's and Boss's that day and some were very very nice.

This story may spark some input on this site. Both for an against. I have another chapter to this story I will post later.

Rob

 

[dalorzo_f]

Interesting story.

I find it odd how some folks get so wound up over a $15 piece of plastic (in general, few trophy's these days are wood/metal).

As you could take the same set of cars, judge them at 10 different shows and get 10 differnt results its really kinda a nice pat on the back, but to me not much more.

The real "trophy", to me, is the kid in the car next to you on the road with a big grin and a thumb's up, or as happened to me some time ago filling up the 68 S convertible... a woman in probably here early 40's walked by and just stared at the car... we made eye contact, she says "its pristine..... what is it?" She liked it as a "pretty car", but didn't "judge" it... priceless... Worth more than any piece of plastic from an "expert" nit picking shades of blue or if the charcoal grey metallic is "a bit too charcoal-y" (true quote).. to me...

Building a show quality car is a huge effort, so nothing against those that put in the time/effort. But the judging being somewhat random leaves me a bit cold on the whole "points industry" that is developing in the hobby.

 

[Maine gt/cs]

#1. I like to show my car off while I am driving it around and you get people giving you the thumbs up. I had one person follow me into a gas station one time to ask me where the rest of my Shelby was and wanted to know if it was for sale. I do like putting in local car shows just for the questions and conversations and people you meet. That is good enough for me.

Tim

 

[Midnight Special]

Interesting story.

I find it odd how some folks get so wound up over a $15 piece of plastic (in general, few trophy's these days are wood/metal).

As you could take the same set of cars, judge them at 10 different shows and get 10 differnt results its really kinda a nice pat on the back, but to me not much more.

The real "trophy", to me, is the kid in the car next to you on the road with a big grin and a thumb's up, or as happened to me some time ago filling up the 68 S convertible... a woman in probably here early 40's walked by and just stared at the car... we made eye contact, she says "its pristine..... what is it?" She liked it as a "pretty car", but didn't "judge" it... priceless... Worth more than any piece of plastic from an "expert" nit picking shades of blue or if the charcoal grey metallic is "a bit too charcoal-y" (true quote).. to me...

Building a show quality car is a huge effort, so nothing against those that put in the time/effort. But the judging being somewhat random leaves me a bit cold on the whole "points industry" that is developing in the hobby.

With likewise respect for concours types yet based on my experience, I couldn't agree more ...^... Many genuine encounters, friendships, and even a few Mustang buyers resulted from chance at restaurants, gas stations & just being seen. Curiosity from these folks also leads to real enthusiasm and appreciation opposed to comparative critique and downplay you get from most "authoritative" types.

Personally, I quit doing formal car shows for not caring if I don't win, yet getting bitched about by concours types in the few that I have won... but boy does the GT/CS remain an attractive hit when the pressure is not on and presented on my terms (as they joyously should be on yours).

 

[robert campbell]

Awesome comments! I never could figure out the appeal of a 10 dollar trophy years ago. I spend no time in parking lots anymore. I drive them and I drive them HARD! My cars are built to perform and that is what I do.

One other thing we did at our Mustang show was to take a professional picture of each car as it drove in. At the end of the day, each winner got a nice wood trophy with the picture of the car that day, under Plexiglas on the trophy! We thought it was kinda cool

I was curious what others thought of the classification process we put in place? My other story later.

Rob

 

[CougarCJ]

I hear you Rob, it is better to 'pre-judge' the participants. We used to have a couple of individuals who wouldn't pre-register on purpose. One owned a slightly modified convertible and would show up, walk the show field before signing up. He would look at the competition of stock convertibles and modified cars for his best chance at an award.

I have a friend who owns the very first 1967 Cougar ever built, number 500001. Very high end restoration, a true concours museum quality piece. When he brings that car to shows it is entered strictly as 'Display only'. I give him so much respect for that. He says that it is 'retired' from judged shows.

How do you guys deal with visiting car clubs that take turns stuffing the ballot box for one of their own?

 

[Midnight Special]

How do you guys deal with visiting car clubs that take turns stuffing the ballot box for one of their own?

...Same way we've dealt with owners who run all around and try to get people to vote for their own cars in "popularity" shows. We simply quit including them in our group. Getting there (and the cruise afterward) should be as enjoyable as being there far as I'm concerned...

The cars always seem to connect with the right people if you relax and let 'em without so much postulating... ;-)

 

[Ruppstang]

My reason for going to MCA national show both to judge and be judged is the opportunity to learn some thing new. When being judged that often means a deduction if it is a correct deduction I learn something and have a new project for the car. If it was a incorrect deduction I have the opportunity to offer my opinion to another judge who may or may not agree with me but that is ok, we both can learn from the discussion.
The MCA is not perfect but it has the best rules and judges in the country.

I go the small shows and often enter display only. I like others have said above it is just fun to sit and talk about the car and who need another trophy to dust.
That is my 2 cents.
Marty

 

[robert campbell]

we have had a local show up in Port Angeles Wa. that was peoples choice for many years. The ballot stuffing was almost a joke for some local PA cars. Nice drive up and back, but again it was a travesty.

That is why from the beginning in the car show we established (by the way, in 1986 or so) it was always participants choice. One participant one vote. Kinda leveled the playing field for ballot stuffing.

Again, I have not entered a car show since the early 1990's. Don't care, don't need it. I go to local cruise nights only. No trophy's, no BS.

We had a guy in the 90's that would come to the Mustang NW meet in Bellevue WA. If he did not get an "end spot" (end of a row) at the show, he would not enter his car and drive away. Good riddance. I heard this through other members of my old club.

But my other story in the same event at the start tomorrow.... Wait for it!!! OK, it will be fun but not that much...

Rob

 

[stangfan]

I do enjoy car shows. Most of the ones I participate in are participants choice. Yes, there are problems with them, but most are casual enough. I used to show my 7-Up Car, and have taken home many trophies with it. When I found my GT/CS, the 7-Up was retired from the shows. Now I take the CS and even though I don't take as much hardware home, I am having much more fun. People love to stop and chat about the car and that's the part I enjoy the most.

 

[robert campbell]

Sooo... The very same show that the disgruntled GT/CS owner entered had another interesting turn.

A 69 or 70 Boss 302 in grabber orange showed up. It was mildly modified and beautiful. Weber carbs, upgraded wheels and tires and some other engine dress up. It was beautiful.

We always made the owner open the hood at our pre-classification. An extremely dressed engine can push a lot of voters past a car that is basically stock under the hood. This owner was from Mustangs Northwest which is the largest Mustang club in the Washington. They hold a huge event each year. After the inspection we felt that this car was a push so to speak. It would compete fairly in either the modified class or the Boss/Shelby/GT/CS class. We gave the owner a choice and he choose the modified class. Done deal.

Well, the Boss 302 owner had inside knowledge. About 30 minutes after he parked, in drives the truck with the enclosed trailer from another Mustangs NW member. The above mentioned red Boss 429 in the first post on this thread rolls out. And on snap on tire "booties"!!! Tire wraps so they never touch the harmful dirty pavement.

This was this cars first show and was one of the most expensive concourse restorations I had ever seen. Not that I am a total aficionado of Boss 429's, but this car had all the stamps and tags and blah blah blah. It was spectacular!

Well the Mustang NW guy with the Boss 302, knew he was arriving as part of his club. So he knew he did not have a chance of winning the Boss/Shelby/GT/CS class.

Well as mentioned in the first post the red Boss 9 won best of show. The Boss 302 took second behind a drag race, flip front end, early 80's Mustang in the modified class.

So even when you try they can still manipulate you, but all and all we tried to run a very fair show.

For the most part I have always had fun at car shows. I tried to keep it simple and if you won an award, well ok. But as the years passed and my son as born I spend most summer weekends at the lake cabin!!

Rob

 

[sam]

I'm not really a car show person.........could care less about a dust collecting trophy or piece of plastic. My total enjoyment is hitting the open road, getting the "thumbs up" and actually stopping at the gas station to filler er up. I get more comments and satisfaction doing that than sitting on a lawn chair in the hot sun & asphalt. However, the best thing about a car show is getting there early and leaving late so you get to see all the cars and hear those throaty engines !
...........that's what I'm talkin about !
Sam

 

[robert campbell]

I have attended one car show about 4 times in Washington. It is called Rod Run To The End of the World. The weekend after Labor Day held in Long Beach Washington.

This show attracts about 1,500 cars of all makes and models. People start arriving the Wednesday before and there is about a 20 mile straight road between Ocean Park where the show is and the town of Long Beach. This section of road turns into an all day "rolling" car show. The Friday night and Saturday night after the show concludes cruising is out of this world!!

I would uncork the headers on my car the day I arrive and cork them up when I leave. Cruise some and then sit in a lawn chair along the road. Amazing to get to hear the cars rather than just look at them!! Awesome! Link to the show below.

Rob

http://www.beachbarons.com/

 

[limelyt]

Being a member of the International Mustang Meet for this year we have always been faced with the challenges for keeping all the car owners happy with the classes. But no matter how hard, or how many classes you have there will always be owners that are unhappy. What we have done with the stock class is, you are allow 3 modifications, after that you are move into the modified Class. (see attached for this year’s classes).

At least most of us traveling to shows in Canada and the U.S. still enjoy the trip getting there, socializing with those we have not seen in a year and the show. But there are some that still require the recognition and trophy for their cars and this is ok if that is what they are there for.

During this year’s International all cars default to modified and Teching team will judge the car if it is to stay in the Stock class. As you can see by the class list even 65 classes might not be enough to keep everyone happy, but we are trying.

Gary

 

[franklinair]

I guess the way I build my CS's it would be classified as modified:
Dual GT exhaust on a C code car, non original body color, upgraded A/C, Voltmeter in place of ammeter, Deluxe dash panels, non original PDB.
But that would be OK with me. Enjoyment is the key issue.:smile:

Neil

 

[robert campbell]

Dad,
In the case of your car, I would not but it in the stock 1968 (most times 1967 1968) coupe class. We would put your car in the Boss/Shelby/GT/CS class.

Rob

 

[mbsf1970]

I have only ever gone to our local Wednesday night show. It is a drive up and show affair....people mingle about and chat up theirs as well as others' cars.
It is completely informal and most of the fun, I believe, are the people driving their cars to and from the show.

I personally get much pleasure from people giving the thumbs up and all the waves of appreciation......none of that takes up any shelf space!!!

Stephen

 

[68 special]

That's why I gave up on shows. The last one I entered turned out to be a "good ole boys" show, so the guy with the most friends won the category and best of show.

I get the most enjoyment when I drive it, like I did last Saturday when a woman in her Acura about broke her neck doing a double take. She reminded me of Linda Blair, only better looking!!!! Or, the guy in the Audi who honked his horn all the way past me with a thumbs up.

Don't get me wrong, I LOVE going to shows, but I just don't participate.


Bret

 

[66hcs-conv]

Interesting comments.

If you will excuse me while I vent here, but I also have grown tired of the car show scene: at the Steamboat Mustang show, there is an individual that trailers his car. He doesn't stage the car with the rest of us common folks. Rolls it out of the trailer in downtown Steamboat. A few years ago we drove through a cattle drive to get to the show. You can 'prolly guess what the underside and sides of our Mustang were plastered with. How is it fair that we are judged in the same class as the trailer queen guy?

Might do a show on grass this summer, but getting tired of sitting on a hot asphalt parking lot or street, for a worthless piece of tin.

Agree with Rob, let's drive the snot out of 'em!

Have fun, Dave

 

[robert campbell]

So I was kinda looking for the feel of the site on the correct placement of a 1968 GT/CS or HCS Mustang at a Mustang show. Just for fun. Not so much with the other special edition Mustangs such as a Gold Nugget Special or even the earlier HCS cars. In 1968 there were a lot of regional "specials". Here is a neat link to special edition Mustangs. Read the first post on this thread before you weigh in.

http://www.limited600mustang.net/specials.html

Many of the specials are just cosmetic such as just a color and a badge, and they show as an equal in a Stock class of their year and body style.

The Kitsap Mustang Club chose to move the GT/CS and 1968 HCS cars into the Boss Shelby class. In a lot of shows open to all year Mustangs draw only so many cars. Our show hovered between 300 and 500 cars, so it was not necessarily a small show. We would average about 20 Shelby and Boss Mustangs from all years. Some nice driver cars and once in a while a trailered car.

What I felt the members of this site should consider or take pride in was the GT/CS/HCS cars competing in a participant vote only car show and how well they competed against the Shelby and Boss. Most of the Boss Shelby owners may have voted purely on their cars, but the rank and file stock Mustang owners got to weigh in also. It came down to fit, finish, and overall cleanliness of the cars. The rank and file owner of a beautiful stock Mustang found it easy to vote on the GT/CS and HCS in this class!

Sometimes the GT/CS and HCS are referred to as a poor man's Shelby. Well, in this case our cars competed well. We did this for years and a GT/CS seemed to always be in the top 3 cars in the Boss/Shelby/GT/CS/HCS class.

What do you think? And as you know I like to drive them and hate hot asphalt, unless I heated it up with my tires!! Has anyone else been to a show that moved the 1968 GT/CS/HCS Mustangs up into the Boss/Shelby class?

Rob