1968 mating engine and trans

[dalorzo_f]

289/C4

Engine is on a stand and having never done this before (only toploaders, do the engine first and then the trans with engine in the car) wondering the best way to mate the two, as I want to install them as an assembly.

Looks like you need to hang the engine on a hoist, attach the flywheel to engine, then engine and flywheel to trans, making sure to align the converter studs.

Wondering about lining the two up with the engine on the hoist, as its all painted dropping it on the ground seems like great way to ding up the nice new paint on the oil pan. And lifting the trans to align and bolt-up sounds like at least a 3 person job... usually its just me and the tools...

Tips and tricks?

 

[Ruppstang]

Lower the engine close to the floor. Put the transmission on a dolly and roll them together. You can raise or lower the lift to help a line. Good luck I am ready to do the same for the GT350, got it down on it's wheels today.

 

[robert campbell]

before you put the torque converter on the C4 pour about 4 to 5 quarts of auto fluid in it. Then slide it in the C4 on the flat or level. You think it is on, but stand it on its end and spin the torque converter slowly and it may/will drop down on the front pump dogs. You will know if it smashes your fingers on the inside of the bell house, or it does not allow you to put them around the torque converter in the first place.....

when you mate it to the flex plate (make sure you do not forget the flat plate behind the flex plate, the mates to the block) the torque converter studs should need to be "drawn" forward about 1/4 inch to tighten to the flex plate. If the studs on the converter do not have a gap and are "smashed" into the flex plate the torque converter is not fully engage or into the front pump of the auto.

Many a new rebuild has been started up with this and the front pump is not engaged and they burn up a new automatic....

Rob

 

[dalorzo_f]

Cool, the trans is already on a dolley... so maybe end of next week. The converter never came out, so should be ok.

Anyone know what the proper nut is to fix the flywheel to the converter? I found all the attaching hardware but those 4 items. From the marks on the flywheel looks like the nuts go on with no washer... just can't find them... look like a 3/8" or 7/16" UNF stud on the converter...

 

[Ruppstang]

I do not know the #s but they are a washer head locking nut. No washers used.

 

[murf104]

Richard, be sure that you put the "plate" between the engine and the transmission. It is very easy to leave that part out when mating the engine and transmission. Don't ask me how I know this! Also be VERY sure that you have the converter indexed correctly to the flex plate. It is easy to make a mistake on converter position so be certain that the drain plug on the converter aligns with the hole in the flex plate. And the final tip is that the bolts that hold the flex plate to the crankshaft MUST be sealed or you will have an oil leak, so clean the threads and hole in the crankshaft and the bolts well and seal them with the proper material. You will have much better results when mating the tranny to the engine if you will use alignment studs screwed into the back of the block when you slide the transmission up to the engine. I think they are 7/16 US thread and can be made by cutting the heads off of a 3 or 4 inch bolt, and be sure and hacksaw a little cut across the sawed end of the bolt (will look like the end of a screw when you are done) so you can remove the bolts from the engine and replace with the proper transmission mounting bolts and lock washers. And be sure to replace the front tranny seal before mating it to the engine as it is a pain to find it leaks AFTER you install the engine and trans. . Good luck!

 

[dalorzo_f]

" the front tranny seal before mating it to the engine "

No clue what that is. The two came apart, there is the main "sandwich plate", that goes between the trans and block, and I saw no other "seal". As noted, the converter was not removed, the two were just split to paint the engine. No rebuilds on either.

I have used the stud trick on toploaders, IIRC a few old spare PS pump mounting bolts did the trick there. Same concept.

Thanks for the tips. Especailly on the drain, saw the plugs and thought of it bit whaen looking at the parts. Your mentioning will now hopefully put it into memory for the process...

Now to find those nuts.. in the mess of 4 1/2 cars worth of parts in 3 locations! :wink:

 

[murf104]

Richard, the seal is the one that the converter enters , commonly called the front seal. The converter must come off to change the seal but I feel it is worth the effort. The seal is not expensive and the labor is virtually complete already with the transmission out and separated from the engine.

 

[dalorzo_f]

So I looked on the web, saw a few "how to install" the converter. Looks pretty easy.

But nothing on the seal.

Once you pull the converter does the seal just pull out and press in, or is there further disassembly/reassembly required to get to it.

As the car was running fine, and there is not a drop of fluid anywhere to be seen in the bellhousing wondering "if it ain't broke..." as these simple jobs ineviatbly seem to lead to a series of "while I am at its..."

 

[franklinair]

The 3 engine pulls I did, I did not change the C-4 front seal. No problem, but maybe I'm just lucky.

Neil

 

[earlymustang]

All the ideas are good but just to add and clarify. Yes pull and replace the front trans seal its cheap insurance and it might be best for you if your not sure how. Take it to your local trans shop and have them replace the seal its a 2 minute job with the correct tool or you can do it for 30 minutes and take a chance of messing it up worse with the wrong tools or knowledge. A seal is 5.00 and labor is worth a 10 or 20 cash to the bench builder.

When you install the torque converter it will drop in or click 3 times and you can check two ways to make sure its all the way in by putting a straight edge across the bell and it wont touch the TC and when you mate the motor all the way on grab the TC stud and the TC will wiggle then put the nuts on (NO washers) also pick up new nuts at the Trans shop while you are there getting the seal done your local hardware store does not have them.

Some TCs have only one drain plug and its easy to loose that one behind the flexplate so make sure you have drain plug access.

Putting fluid in the TC is NOT needed it will not improve or hurt anything the pump will fill the TC very fast. Fill the trans with 3 quarts ONLY then start the motor any more than that and it will all be all on the ground. fill the trans until you cant hear the gurgling in the fill tube any more then check the level and add 1 maybe 2 more it will take about 8 quarts total.

 

[murf104]

I am probably too cautious but replacing the front seal in the transmission is an easy decision for me. It takes little time, costs virtually nothing compared to the parts we buy for our Mustangs and can pay dividends both in peace of mind and in preventing a leak down the road. Sure, the old one may not leak for some folks, but I never take that chance when it is so simple to do while the transmission is removed already.

 

[dalorzo_f]

I'm happy to go for it, if I can build an engine, rewire the car, do all interior and glass I think this one should be int eh range of my abilities. That and it is at a shop that restores cars daily, so have a few resources on hand to bounce issues off!

Question is

Once you pull the converter does the seal just pull out and press in, or is there further disassembly/reassembly required to get to it

Some prep would be good before I go pulling things apart, as some "commonly" available parts in the US can be a two week wait here. Anyone got pics of hit seal, where it goes, how it goes in and out?

Some "front seal" kits I see have half a dozen or more items, seals gaskets and whatnot... which indicate to me more than just popping out one seal and replacing it...

Photos?

 

[Ruppstang]

My engine and transmission successfully mated yesterday producing a complete drive train.

 

[dalorzo_f]

Very nice....

 

[murf104]

Richard, replacing the front seal is certainly within the range of your ability! It is just a "lip" seal much like the seal on an axle. Pop out the old seal, drive in the new. It is just one seal. No "kit" is needed. Pull out the converter, pop out the seal replace the seal and slide the converter back on the tranny making sure it engages ALL of the splines. When you have it properly seated a yardstick across the front face of the bellhousing will show room between the yardstick and the converter. If the converter sticks out past the front edge of the bellhousing, turn the converter some more until it drops all of the way in. You can do it!

 

[dalorzo_f]

Ok, I am sure I can, I just like some idea of what I am getting into before taking something off...hearing the dreaded... "sproingggggg"... then DINK-DINk-DInk-Dink-dink-dink.... fading into the distance...and wondering what just got launched into oblivion.... :wink: