1968 Motor Rebuild

[monkus]

For those who are purists I have a question regarding a rebuild on the original 289.. my car has the original block and heads as well as original rods I’m told.. probably some time in the early 90’s before the last owner before me purchased the car it was rebuilt and bored 30 over and had the 2 barrel changed out for a 4b.. I bought it in early 2000 and only put about 500 miles on it... then it sat for 6 years and the head gasket on the left head developed a leak... I have it a restoration shop in Muskegon, MI. My home town.. the machine shop had to bore it out 40 over... I’m not mechanically trained and rely on the advice of the professional mechanic at the shop... I’m told a simple rebuild would be no problem but that a lot of guys are now stroking out their old tired motors and he suggests the 347 stroker kit with a mild cam and a set of aluminum heads... the machanic feels he can safely get around 350hp and more if I wanted to spend the long dollar... the block is a 302 which I understand is a little better than the 289 block for stroking as it’s a stronger cast... Windsor 302..
So for the sake of resale in the future would stroking it really hurt the resale?

 

[Mosesatm]

I don't know about the resale potential but if you want to make sure it's the original engine you can look for the VIN on the rear of the engine, just behind the intake manifold.

I'm sure Rob will comment on the engine build!!

 

[stangfan]

Everyone has their own opinion on these things, but for myself, I like to keep things as original as possible. Going to a stroker takes you into the modified realms. You can't help it if the block needs to be bored to .30 over, but I still consider that to be original.

Just my .02 worth. :grin:

 

[Ruppstang]

Do you intend to drive it in a way that the extra HP would be important?

 

[Mosesatm]

Everyone has their own opinion on these things, but for myself, I like to keep things as original as possible. Going to a stroker takes you into the modified realms. You can't help it if the block needs to be bored to .30 over, but I still consider that to be original.

Just my .02 worth. :grin:

After reading Steve's post I guess I do have an opinion on the resale value.

As usual, I agree with Steve......but for a different reason.

If I'm looking to purchase a GT/CS and I find out it's been stroked to a 347 I tend to walk away because I don't know how what else has been done to the engine, who did the rebuild, and if they knew what they were doing. I've read too many horror stories about 347s blowing up due to improper rebuilds.

The other problems I have with them is that some owners can't stop with just stroking the engine. They also tend to install headers, large carbs, lumpy cams, and loud exhaust. I'm too old for those things. Rob isn't, but I am.

That said, Steve and I may be exception to the rule. A lot of car buyers want maximum power, so stroking the engine may increase it's resale value if you don't go overboard with the rest of it.

OK, I'll stop rambling.

 

[stangfan]

After reading Steve's post I guess I do have an opinion on the resale value.

As usual, I agree with Steve......but for a different reason.

If I'm looking to purchase a GT/CS and I find out it's been stroked to a 347 I tend to walk away because I don't know how what else has been done to the engine, who did the rebuild, and if they knew what they were doing. I've read too many horror stories about 347s blowing up due to improper rebuilds.

The other problems I have with them is that some owners can't stop with just stroking the engine. They also tend to install headers, large carbs, lumpy cams, and loud exhaust. I'm too old for those things. Rob isn't, but I am.

That said, Steve and I may be exception to the rule. A lot of car buyers want maximum power, so stroking the engine may increase it's resale value if you don't go overboard with the rest of it.

OK, I'll stop rambling.

You're not rambling...simply giving your opinion, which is what he posted the question for. :grin:

 

[robert campbell]

Robs thoughts..... For what they are worth....

Just stroking the motor to 347 cubic inches will help some, but not a lot. You need to build a "package" to enjoy the extra cubes. First and foremost you need to have your stock heads ported or step up to an aftermarket aluminum head. The cost to port stock heads is similar in cost to the purchase of a good aluminum heads. You will need a bigger cam, but it does not have to be that lumpy. The new hydraulic roller cams make huge power and do not effect the streetablilty of the engine. A set of shorty headers or long tubes will also let it be all it can be.

IMO these simple ads will increase the fun factor of your car and not hurt its value. But Arlie is correct, it must be done right by a properly trained mechanic with a good reputation to hold its resale. A fly by night job will hurt its value.

The old parts can be kept and if the new owner wants to return to total original the parts are there and engine work is a lot cheaper than rust repair or paint work.

Your mechanic must build a package to realize 350 HP. Just stroking will not accomplish that. To rebuild and increase the power is not a lot more dollars than to rebuild the original.

I could recommend you a package that will nock your socks off! And be totally streetable and again IMO not hurt your cars value. If your mechanic has a good rep, you will have the documentation of what was done and a new owner will not be hurt by the mods.

But again, Arlie brings up very valid points. Bad work equals bad results.

Rob

 

[monkus]

Thanks,

Yes this mechanic has build a lot of stroker motors for the shops customers and he is putting together a good package of reliable parts to add to the motor.. I will be driving the car to car shows and on summer evenings.. Previously the motor just felt dead with little power and the drive experience was kinda dull to me and thats probably why I let it sit for 6 years and then the head gasket went bad.. I was thinking of just selling it but then I decided to have the motor rebuilt and drive it and then see if I enjoy it more after the rebuild.. The motor is the original as is the c-4 transmission as it has matching numbers to the VIN.. The mechanic suggested possibly efi but for now I'm sticking with carb..

Of course I couldn't stop there and decided to have wilwood power disc brakes added to the front of car.. Those old manual drums just seemed a bit scary and with the added HP I figured I needed to have better braking system.. I certainly can understand one's level of concern when buying a car that has been built up... the shop is recording the entire tear down and rebuild process with complete photos from start to finish which is nice to have for documentation.. I will keep you posted..thanks

 

[franklinair]

Its good that you have a reputable engine builder, and the build will be documented.
I have misgivings about the engines rebuilt by various builders that you see advertised on the internet & magazines.
I'm used to dealing with aircraft engines that are built by licensed shops, certified by the FAA. And they must meet manufacture's specs & tolerances.
Glad you're resurrecting your CS, and hope its an enjoyable experience.

Neil

 

[robert campbell]

Thanks,

Yes this mechanic has build a lot of stroker motors for the shops customers and he is putting together a good package of reliable parts to add to the motor.. I will be driving the car to car shows and on summer evenings.. Previously the motor just felt dead with little power and the drive experience was kinda dull to me and thats probably why I let it sit for 6 years and then the head gasket went bad.. I was thinking of just selling it but then I decided to have the motor rebuilt and drive it and then see if I enjoy it more after the rebuild.. The motor is the original as is the c-4 transmission as it has matching numbers to the VIN.. The mechanic suggested possibly efi but for now I'm sticking with carb..

Of course I couldn't stop there and decided to have wilwood power disc brakes added to the front of car.. Those old manual drums just seemed a bit scary and with the added HP I figured I needed to have better braking system.. I certainly can understand one's level of concern when buying a car that has been built up... the shop is recording the entire tear down and rebuild process with complete photos from start to finish which is nice to have for documentation.. I will keep you posted..thanks

Sounds like you got an experienced engine builder. You will love the results once dialed in. I would love to suggest some long tube headers for you. They are made at Ford Powertrain Applications and Stan Johnson the owner bleeds Ford blue. They tuck up nice and tight and in my experience work without lowering the power steering ram. They produce zero ground clearance problems. And they are competitively priced in the "quality" long tube header game. There are bargain basement headers, but you get what you paid for. Junk! Give Stan a call and mention my name! I use his headers on all my cars and recommend them to my customers. I have installed them on many customer cars!

Here is a link to the FPA site.

http://www.fordpowertrain.com/FPAindex/Mustang1.htm

And a link to the pic of the headers:

http://www.fordpowertrain.com/347step.htm

Rob

 

[monkus]

The 289 to 347 stroker is done and running...

 

[CougarCJ]

Nice, also I like that you are using the Autolite distributor.

By the way, shock tower braces mount under the cowl lip. :wink:

 

[monkus]

yes.. I have the stang at the shop and didn't notice the mounting of shock towers, thanks

 

[robert campbell]

I hate to say that unless you have someone work with the centrifugal advance curve and eliminate the dual diaphragm vacuum advance on your stock distributor you will lose horsepower and possibly have pinging problems. I can step through some thoughts if you wish.

Rob

 

[monkus]

Rob,
Thanks for the heads up.. I will ask the mechanics at the shop about this.. I know they rebuild the distributor with new gears from COMP and I'm not sure about the centrifugal advance curve?

 

[robert campbell]

In most cases in a high performance build an MSD dizzy with no vacuum advance is best. They are easy to change the centrifugal curve in and set up for your engine.

If they changed the dizzy gear that does not necessarily mean they rebuilt it. If you have a roller cam they had to change to a composite gear to prevent gear damage. You can recurve your stock distributor with lighter springs to allow it to add advance earlier. And remove the plastic stop and/or grind the metal stop to allow for increased centrifugal advance. And normally you would block off the vacuum to the vacuum advance to take it out of the picture. I am working on a setup for a 68 Shelby as we speak to attempt to dial in a factory dizzy. It has aluminum heads and a roller cam I just put in.

Your car does not look all that "stock" and I feel an MSD dizzy would be a nice upgrade. You can also get the MSD 6AL box that is plug and play with the dizzy and has a soft touch rev limiter to prevent over revving of the engine.

Rob

 

[robert campbell]

Is that a 670 Holley Street Avenger on your engine?

Rob