Pledge of Alligance

[68gt390]

While surfing the net this morning I ran across the below link. It is a rendition of the Pledge of Allegiance as done by Red Skelton. Many of us know him as a great comedian from the late 50's and early 60's. I found this to be very moving for me so I thought I'd post it here. Please take a few moments to listen and reflect.

http://patriotfiles.org/Pledge.htm

Don

 

[Mustanglvr]

Very touching Don. There will never be another Red Skelton, he was one of a kind. His words ring so true.

 

[Midnight Special]

Thanks Don, I've seen this before and am as moved by it today as in the first time

Isn't it ironic on how we come together and pray after each horrible occurrence such as the recent shootings in Virginia, Columbine etc... but we're no longer allowed to pray, give honor, nor thanks to God in our schools preceding...

 

[hotrodgrany]

Thanks Don, I've seen this before and am as moved by it today as in the first time

Isn't it ironic on how we come together and pray after each horrible occurrence such as the recent shootings in Virginia, Columbine etc... but we're no longer allowed to pray, give honor, nor thanks to God in our schools preceding...

This is so true, I couldn't have said it better.

 

[Mustanger]

This is so true, I couldn't have said it better.

Amen, God bless America ...

 

[PNewitt]

Since I can't open "Flash" files, I can't comment on Red Skelton's version. I always loved his show....and laughed and laughed when it was on.

A couple of points. The US added the words "Under God" to the Pledge in the early, "Cold War" 1950's to show Communist Russia that we were not a Godless country.

It's been there ever since.

The people of this country need to sort out and moreso, understand just how and what religion has done TO our country. When our country was founded, English Colonial America was struggling with the fighting between the Quakers and the Puritans. Each side wanted to incorporate their version of Christianity into the (new) Constitution.

Thankfully, level heads prevailed, and there was a defined separation of church and state.

Today, with that long forgotten, it's a battle between the ACLU and the Religious Right--NOT for what is right and fair, but who can get more power out of the politics of it. You see this every day on TV--groups battling over something; most likely not over the subject at hand (reason loses out), but for whom can get the most power out any given situation. Because power equals options for those who have it.

I'd rather think for myself, than to subscribe to any one side. Sometimes it makes me sick to my stomach to think about those today who self-righteously wrap themselves in the flag; the same flag that so many fought and died for in so many wars.

And, despite it all, most Americans don't even know the meaning of the words, or the history of the pledge, anyway.

Just my 2 bits.

Paul N.

 

[Perkchiro]

In my mind, the words "under God" do not reflect a specific religion. The founding fathers knew that "freedom" was an inalienable right, not provided by men, but by the creator of men. The false teaching and promotion of "separation of church and state" is no where contained in our constitution. The modern attempts to separate the two are not born of concerns about a specific religion or church, but about God Himself.

The founding fathers of our country had the concept of a God that granted us our founding freedoms in America without reference to religion or church. I can see no reason why that historical fact cannot be studied in school, sung in our national songs, and included in our pledge. I see no reason why the Ten Commandments cannot be placed in a courthouse tundra as a historical remembrance of our nations beginnings. I can see no reason why a student cannot bow to pray over his/her lunch, or why that student cannot wear a religious symbol such as a cross around their neck. The Judeo-Christian heritage of our nation should be celebrated and appreciated, not scoffed at and abandoned.

I too am sickened by the ACLU's constant "chipping away" of references to God in our public places. They are vigilant at preserving free speech, but do you think they want to preserve the right of the Christian to free speech? Not so. They have an agenda with a double standard.

Something has happened in America that is deeply troubling. We have hardened our hearts and abandoned life, liberty and justice. Abandoning God as a nation just may have something to with that.

Just my 2 cents.:smile:

 

[Mosesatm]

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

 

[Perkchiro]

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

Words of wisdom. Exactly my point.

 

[Mosesatm]

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion

This above line is the one that creates the religion issues.

It has been interpreted by the U.S. Supreme Court as meaning that the government cannot endorse or promote any religion, hence no 10 commandments in the lobbies of government buildings, since that would promote or endorse Christian/Judaic religions to the exclusion of all others.

But in their wisdom they added the very next line, that permits free speech. So the founding fathers are saying that government shall not endorse or promote any religion (because their old country's government did) but private citizens have the right to do so (because they couldn't in their old country).

Simple but brilliant.

 

[Midnight Special]

...That "wisdom" as affirmed by the Pledge of Allegiance and its meaning is needed more today than ever. Its removal has created a vacuum that is being filled with distortion and agenda beneficial to a few rather than the masses...

 

[Perkchiro]

Which is why the Supreme court needs to uphold the law, interpret it correctly and according to the intent of the law, and not legislate from the bench. BTW: A statue of the 10 commandments in the lobby of a government building endorses no religion IMO. It is an object of historic value and a Biblical passage that reflects the foundational laws and traditions from which the American government was founded.

 

[Mosesatm]

Which is why the Supreme court needs to uphold the law, interpret it correctly and according to the intent of the law, and not legislate from the bench. BTW: A statue of the 10 commandments in the lobby of a government building endorses no religion IMO. It is an object of historic value and a Biblical passage that reflects the foundational laws and traditions from which the American government was founded.

Perky you are contradicting yourself in that displaying a biblical passage endorses those religions that are based on the bible, and excludes all others.

The supreme court, whose job it is to interpret laws, has ruled that the 1st amendment was intended, among other things, to keep religion and government separate.

Yes, most, if not all, of our founding fathers were Christians but they understood that they should not impose their beliefs on others. Remember, back in their old countries they got the crap kicked out of them for their religious beliefs and they wanted to do everything they could to make sure this new country did not fall into that same trap. I think they did a great job. I also think the supreme court understood that goal when they ruled on the separation of church and state.

The supreme court rules on a lot of issues. Some of the rulings we agree with and some we don't but we can't ignore the rulings we don't agree with. Doing so would create anarchy in this great nation.

 

[Perkchiro]

Nope Mosey, no contradiction there. Read the writings of our founding fathers (Jefferson, Adams, Franklin et.al.) They had an abiding faith in God and a confidence in God and dependence on Him to lead in the formation of the new United States government. No religion mentioned or promoted. Quotes from a book such as the Bible don't promote a specific religion. Doesn't promote Baptists, Catholics, Mormons, Muslims or say that we must conform to a specific "state" religion. That was their purpose, to allow all to worship as they wanted. Albeit, to disallow a State run church, not necessarily to take God away from the State.

 

[Mosesatm]

I totally agree with the last part of your rebuttal. That is exactly what they were trying to avoid but where we need to be careful is in the 1st part of your rebuttal.

Did you notice that you mentioned only Judaic religions; only religions that believe in the same God you believe in? That is the trap we must avoid.

One reason our country is great is that we allow and even encourage diversity (or at least we used to) so we need to be careful in letting the government promote only those religions that believe in the same God we believe in. And as badly as they screw things up it may be best for them to avoid anything religious-based.

Nope Mosey, no contradiction there. Read the writings of our founding fathers (Jefferson, Adams, Franklin et.al.) They had an abiding faith in God and a confidence in God and dependence on Him to lead in the formation of the new United States government. No religion mentioned or promoted. Quotes from a book such as the Bible don't promote a specific religion. Doesn't promote Baptists, Catholics, Mormons, Muslims or say that we must conform to a specific "state" religion. That was their purpose, to allow all to worship as they wanted. Albeit, to disallow a State run church, not necessarily to take God away from the State.

 

[Perkchiro]

Arlie, I think we are closer on this issue that you may think. The point I'm trying to make, and probably not effectively, is that our Nation was founded on Judeo-Christian values and our founding fathers relied on that faith in establishing our nation. What harm is it to make that a fact of history to be honored and remembered? We should remember our roots. The roots of our nation were not founded upon the Koran or Islam or Buddha. It was founded with principles of faith, trust, honor, liberty, justice and freedom. All of these attributes, according to our founding fathers wisdom and writings were not of themselves, but granted by God. That promotes no state religion. Memorials to that effect promote no religion. Crosses placed on our fallen solders graves promote no state religion. It's sad, but the hysteria of political correctness and diversity has attempted to "bury" any reference to God or a link to God and our Nation. We can't even have our students read about the early settlers, our founding fathers and their faith in God. Would that promote a religion? Hardly. I'm not advocating or promoting my faith on anyone. This is America and we can worship as we chose. My only disappointment is that some in America are buying this lie of "separation of church and state" to mean that we can't even mention God and God can't be referenced as a fact of history in our United States.

 

[Mosesatm]

Good debate, Steve!

 

[mmarsalone]

Just my two cents on this subject and I usually agree with Perky on most issues that come up here, and he certainly doesn't need my help making his point.:wink:

But separation of church and state was a Supreme Court interpretation that has been used by many to remove all religion from all levels of government.

To sum up what I believe the founding fathers wrote into the Constitution; they were giving us "Freedom OF Religion" not "Freedom FROM Religion".

 

[PNewitt]

Hey, Arlie,

Why is it that I never see or hear things like how you've just explained here--on TV? You make such clear sense.

I think that the media--and the "powers that be" like to keep the information, no matter how clear and direct--muddled and confusing (I mean this in general).

I've come to the conclusion that to get "power" today, you need to embrace the uninformed, or more frankly, the "stupid". Just stir up any political group with false conclusions and misinformation via the media, or from heresay, and you have momentum to a mob mentality.

Then the prevailing speaker has the last word, and we go along with it?
Yep, that's the USA.

Too bad more Americans don't just get it when it comes to the basics of civics, the constitution, and knowledge in general. We could come a long way...

Paul N.

 

[Perkchiro]

It's sad that so many people depend on TV and it's pundits to formulate their disinformed political views. Most people have never read the constiution and many are unaware of what is contained in it. You are right Paul, its just too bad more American's just don't get it ["the basics of civics, the constitution and knowledge in general"]. There are some of us out there that do.