1968 Tail Light Panel Screw Question

[somethingspecial]

OK, a question was posed to me recently and I am on a quest to answer this question. For some time now, it has been the acceptable belief the screws which hold the fiberglass tail light panel to the rear of the car has been a Phillips “broad head” black oxide or Phosphate finish #8-15 x ¾ inch sheet self tapping screw. This screw looks like it has a washer under it, but it is simply a “broad head”. This screw is definitely used on the 1968 Shelby tail light panel, but most of what I have seen on the GT/CS have been Phillips #8-15 x ¾ zinc dichromate pan head screws. Others have seen this and therefore the question is posed.

My belief is: 1) The Shelby’s were assembled at A.O. Smith and the broad head screw was used. Part # 350075-813. 2) The GT/CS and HCS cars were assembled at Ford San Jose, and the screws which held the rear valance on were good enough for the tail light panel, therefore were assembled with the same pan head screws. Part # 380934-S36

I need your help. If you have a Survivor GT/CS or HCS, which has the original screws, or if you have a Restored car, and you know for a fact what screws were original to your car, Please chime in.

Resources on the subject seem to always use the A.O. Smith drawing for the Shelby assembly, and call for the broad head screws. Therefore, MCA has accepted these screws for Concours Judging. I used the broad head screws when restoring my Concours car, but I would really like to know what is correct so I can correct it if needed, and prevent others from making the same mistake. I expect MCA Judges to chime in on this and give their opinion on this matter.

Thank you in advance for all your help on this question.

I know the photo is a little fuzzy, but I think you can get the idea.

 

[Edward Bodoh]

Yes chime in please

Mike and I had this conversation when he gave my car a look over a few months back. Sometime during my cars history all these screws are gone and replaced with mismatch screws...which irks me. Whichever screws are correct should be the same as the 2 screws used to hold the carpet down to seat floor pans at the carpet folds right??? Looks like larger mismatched screws were used on my taillight panel referenced so well...I'm kinda screwed lol. Yea chime in guys so i can start my hunt for correct screws. Sacramento mustang has no idea where I can get these screws....thanks. Ed.

 

[somethingspecial]

Ed, That is what I am trying to determine. When we had the conversation about the screws, I was under the same belief the screws should be the same as the carpet screws, but now I am not so sure.

 

[Ruppstang]

Mike the the assembly manual calls out a 55962-S9 ovel head screws to attach fiberglass panel to body AMK 380660 #8-18, 1/2OD 1/2L S2 finish. They could be zinc or phospate but the phospate was most commonly used. They have a slightly different head than the carpet screws. The AMK ones are close and that is what I used in the red HCS.
I also will post a original picture from Jeff Speegle.
Marty

 

[Mosesatm]

You may want to cross reference dates with screw types.

 

[dalorzo_f]

Looked into this on the concours forum a short while ago. No clear answer.

I asked as AMK uses the "carpet" type srews, but my GT/CS uses pan heads close the the RH above. All the same and a fairly unmolested car, would think it odd when it was resprayed (badly) in the past someone woudl have removed and repalced the screws, and then paint over them.

In the thread there were mentions of seeing both, was never determined if it was a plant issue (Shelby vs GT/CS, which may make sense for a differnce between the two as one was on the Ford line and one not, could see Shelby using different screws to Ford), running change, or random and different ones were "correct"... I am leaning to the "two screw" theory, as noted.

 

[Forsche]

Ed, That is what I am trying to determine. When we had the conversation about the screws, I was under the same belief the screws should be the same as the carpet screws, but now I am not so sure.

Mike,

While I cannot guarantee that Sara's has original screws, it is a one-owner unrestored car. The taillight panel was painted silver so technically they could have been changed when painted. The screws on Sara's CS taillight panel appear to be the panhead screws with a small washer. I checked to be sure it was not actually a broad head screw with the appearance of a washer and in fact it is a separate washer. I can take a pic if helpful.

Steve

 

[Ruppstang]

After thinking on this a bit it may be very likely that at times the washer head screws were not available and as all way the line needed to keep moving so the vallance screws were substuted. If I was restoring a car and all of the screws were the same and apeared to be original that is what I would put back. If I did not know what what the car had originaly I would use the ones described in the assembly manual. As a MCA judge I would not deduct for either screws provided they were all the same.
Marty

 

[Edward Bodoh]

Thanks guys

Thanks that bout answers it for me.....as far as the taillight screws are concerned.

 

[dalorzo_f]

 

[somethingspecial]

Mike,

The screws on Sara's CS taillight panel appear to be the panhead screws with a small washer. I checked to be sure it was not actually a broad head screw with the appearance of a washer and in fact it is a separate washer. Steve

Steve, Interesting, yours is the second original unmolested car to have pan head screws with washers. The other is an original, never taken apart HCS. Does this indicate there is a third posibility of screws? MAN, it just keeps getting deeper and deeper. LOL

Marty, Thanks for posting pics, The pic Jeff Speegle sent you, is that a CS or a Shelby?
What Assembly Manual do you have which shows the GT/CS parts and hardware? I have the Jim Osborne Manuals and I don't see what you called out.

Richard, Thanks for posting your photos, that is EXACTLY what I have seen nine out of ten times.

 

[Forsche]

Steve, Interesting, yours is the second original unmolested car to have pan head screws with washers. The other is an original, never taken apart HCS. Does this indicate there is a third posibility of screws? MAN, it just keeps getting deeper and deeper. LOL

Marty, Thanks for posting pics, The pic Jeff Speegle sent you, is that a CS or a Shelby?
What Assembly Manual do you have which shows the GT/CS parts and hardware? I have the Jim Osborne Manuals and I don't see what you called out.

Richard, Thanks for posting your photos, that is EXACTLY what I have seen nine out of ten times.

Mike, if it was obvious you would be bored! : )

Steve

 

[somethingspecial]

Mike, if it was obvious you would be bored! : )

Steve

Just when I think I have it figured out, RIGHT?!?!?!

 

[stangfan]

My car was repainted in 2005, but the tailpanel looks to me to be untouched. The screws on my car are the same as these, but are black, with no body colour on them at all. My CS was built on March 15th, if that makes any difference.

 

[dalorzo_f]

The body color is a crappy repaint by the PO.:wink:

The only reference I have seen for these screws is in the Shelby drawings. 55962-S9. Which, oddly, calls out as an Oval head phillips, Type AB (fine thread) # 8-18, 5/16" (.292/.332) OD, 3/4" L. And are not called out in any way in the detailed parts list in the back of the book. Which may indicate reuse of existing?). But these do not match the "carpet" type or the pan head commonly seen.


From a mechanical standpoint it seems an odd choice, as the oval tapered head would not seem a good match for attaching the fiberglass panel to the tail, a "wedge" fit in an area where a flat compression would seem more appropriate.

Interesting no Factory drawings for the GT/CS seem to have come to light.

I would bet as Shelby would have repainted the panels silver once removed that they reinstalled with different screws per thier drawings, which seem different to the assembly line variant. And that the callout on the draing is incorect for some reason.

 

[Ruppstang]

Mike it was Jeffs GT-CS. The assembly manual belongs to someone else. I will look at it again next time I go down there. I found these drawing today but they are not much help. Marty

 

[nfrntau]

The screws on my panel are the same as the screw on the right hand side of the photo mike posted. Also the same as the screws stangfan posted (without the overspray )
I don't have a photo of the originals but I included a photo of the car after I took the panel off. I'm very certain they are original and unmolested.

 

[admin]

My unrestored HCS has the pan head screws (all matching). The car has never been repainted and I can't imagine the original owner would have ever taken off the tail light panel. I certainly haven't in the 18 yrs I've owned it.

Wow, that makes me sound old!!! :grin: I had to triple check my math on how long I've owned this car. I had no idea it had been that long!

 

[Ruppstang]

This last weekend I was at a MCA national show and got to visit with my freind that helped me finish our HCS. I asked him what the drawing we had looked at on the taillight panel was from. and he said it was the AO Smith drawing for the Shelbys. I light of that Mike I belive that you are correct in saying that Ford mostly used the pan head screws the same as used on the vallance. It may have been Fords intention to use the same assembly plan as the Shelby but may be do to cost or availablity things changed when the cars were actualy were built. Such as the trunk bumpers and secquential turn siginals used on Shelbys and not on the GTCS and HCS models. I do not know how to explain the partial use of the Shelby washer head screws on some of our cars.
For now I will not deduct for either when judging. Marty

 

[somethingspecial]

Wow, Interesting info from this question. Thank you to all who answered, and for who will answer. Let's hear from others, what say you?