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. Tested the Limits of Ford's 302 Block, lets just say its no Chevy 350

davidathans

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Joined
Jul 25, 2004
Messages
703
Location
San Fernando Valley, California
When i had my latest engine built back in October of 2004 i was shooting for 400 Engine Horsepower and a quartermile e.t. in the 12's.

As time went on i eventually made 384HP AT THE WHEELS and went as quick as 11.989 @ 111.79mph on just the motor.

When the competition (Joe De Los Santos) broke my 11.989 and challenged me to a race, i pulled a rabbit out of my hat and added a power adder, N20.

The kit had different jets for 100HP, 150HP, 175HP, 200HP, 250HP.

I was going to go with just the 100HP gain, but we put in the 150HP jets...

The day before the race on the chassis dyno the car put down 379HP and 361ft.-lbs. torque at the tires...and those numbers went up to 478HP and 457ft.-lbs. torque at the tires with the tune running lean ( air to fuel ratios of: 14.0-14.4 NA & 12.5-12.7 w/N20).

On Dec 6, 2008 at Autoclub Dragway in Fontana, i ran a 11.085 e.t. while having to back on and off the gas because i was running a 4.11 gear and a 26" tire and could only spin to 6700rpm...finished in the quarter at 110.14mph when i was at 100.68 at the 8th mile beating a modified 07 Shelby GT-500 (11.539 @ 120.25).

I broke some parts: Cracked my Gear Case in my rear end and the auburn limited slip differential was coming apart.

In 2009, i put in a nodular iron gear case, beefier pinion support and yoke, went to a Detroit Locker Differential and a 3.70 gear ratio down from a 4.11.

Then i had the carburetor re-jetted and tuned to handle the lean issue.

Had it on the chassis dyno on July 1st 2009 and it made 352HP and 296ft.-lbs torque at the tires. HP was down from 379 and torque was way down from 361 (gear ratio change and running rich instead of lean). With the Nitrous it made 469HP and 404ft.-lbs torque at the tires running so rich that it was below a 10.0:1 air fuel ratio (off the scale of the wide band air fuel meter).

Ran it like that on July 18th at Autoclub Dragway in Fontana...

Naturally Aspirated quartermile e.t. and speed were down with the 3.70 gear ratio to 12.434 @ 108.81mph.

However, with the Nitrous...i set my current bests with 11.042 e.t. and 124.08mph.

On the drive home from the track, i heard some noise coming from my axles and my MSD 6AL Ignition Box overheated (it was about 110 degrees in the San Fernando Valley and i had been driving for an hour when i hit traffic).

Towed the car home and began taking it apart...Re-wired the car, removed the windshield wipers and motor and brackets, removed the Heater core (that had been bypassed anyways), removed the A/C blower motor, and removed the last of the A/C components (switches, vents, and ducts), and took out the carpet. Took about 100 pounds off the car.

got it back on the road and had the noisy axles checked....Despite being Ford 9" 31 spline axles...the splines were starting to twist. Had them replaced with Moser 31 spline axles $420.

Then my car started flooding and stalling out. Pulled apart the carburetor and my secondary fuel bowl was flaking apart on the inside! Bad casting, bought a new one and re-tuned the carburetor.

I had a fuel pressure regulator put in, the combination of my electric pump and my mechanical pump was putting about 8psi to the carb and the fuel solenoid. When we reduced that to 6.5psi we put it on the chassis dyno again on 10/28/09....for the last time...

The car was tuned spot on...made 362HP and 298ft.-lbs torque at the tires (air fuel 12.7-13.3).

So we proceeded to run it with the Nitrous...

The tires broke loose on the dyno rollers!!

The air fuel graph showed 11.0-11.3...right where the nitrous kit recommended...didnt get an accurate horsepower and torque graph because of the tire slip though.

At this point it didnt occur to me HOW MUCH MORE HORSEPOWER WAS BEING MADE to have the tires LAY A PATCH ON THE ROLLERS...

So we ran it....one....last....time...

This time we had two people sitting in the trunk to put weight over the rear tires...

When we tromped on it, it was clear the motor stopped making HP and we got out of it right away...then i walked to the front of the car and Coolant was shooting out from where the timing cover mates up with the front of the block....catastrophic failure...

When we looked at the dyno results it showed 520RWHP!! About 40 more wheel HP than i ever made before, just by tuning it right on.

We pulled out the distributor and looked down into the block and could see it was broken inside.

I towed the car home, where i began the tear down....

The block is split in half....

This motor lasted 5 years and had 130 Races under its belt.

I had been told that a stock 302 block could only handle 500RWHP and i proved it, the hard way.
 

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davidathans

davidathans

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Messages
703
Location
San Fernando Valley, California
dyno data....the funny looking graph shows the tires spinning on the dyno.

The 520RWHP graph accidentally got deleted, and i didnt believe it at first, but after looking at the block i believe it
 

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davidathans

davidathans

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Jul 25, 2004
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703
Location
San Fernando Valley, California
Theres a crack in the block the size of the grand canyon...
 

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davidathans

davidathans

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Location
San Fernando Valley, California
motor and trans are out
 

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davidathans

davidathans

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what it looks like under that timing cover
 

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di81977

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Joined
Jan 15, 2006
Messages
446
That kind of sucks.

The guy who works on my car blew his motor on the last race of the year. He was running a stroked 302 in a 64 Fairlane. His fastest time was around 11.9 (at altitude - about 10.9 at sea level) on a naturally aspirated engine. He teaches auto shop at a local college and spends tons of time on his heads and picking the right cam (working directly with Cam Research here in Denver).

How is your car body and paint doing? Any twisting or splitting? That is an awful lot of Torque!

David, I had the same problem with my Holley 750 DP. Call Holley (I think I talked with Randy). They had a mfg problem at one point. If you are in the right date code, they will replace for free.

Good luck with your rebuid.

david
 
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davidathans

davidathans

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Camshaft looks good, but now that its out....you can see the split is all the way through...

haven't had a chance to drop the oil pan yet and pull the crank, but im sure the crank and rods are fine...more pictures to come this weekend
 

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davidathans

davidathans

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That kind of sucks.

The guy who works on my car blew his motor on the last race of the year. He was running a stroked 302 in a 64 Fairlane. His fastest time was around 11.9 (at altitude - about 10.9 at sea level) on a naturally aspirated engine. He teaches auto shop at a local college and spends tons of time on his heads and picking the right cam (working directly with Cam Research here in Denver).

How is your car body and paint doing? Any twisting or splitting? That is an awful lot of Torque!

David, I had the same problem with my Holley 750 DP. Call Holley (I think I talked with Randy). They had a mfg problem at one point. If you are in the right date code, they will replace for free.

Good luck with your rebuid.

david

The paint is horrible, cracked everywhere, but its from accidents and bad body work, but it has gotten worse due to the stress.

Already spent the money and got a new fuel bowl it was less than $40, needed it right away haha but thanks for the info, i'll keep that in mind if the same thing happens to the primary fuel bowl.
 

di81977

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Joined
Jan 15, 2006
Messages
446
Holley recommended replacing the entire carb, not just the fuel bowls. Had something to do with the % of lead content.

Wow, that block is destroyed! What are your plans for a new engine? Stay away from nitrous, go with a supercharger!
 
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davidathans

davidathans

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San Fernando Valley, California
Holley recommended replacing the entire carb, not just the fuel bowls. Had something to do with the % of lead content.

Wow, that block is destroyed! What are your plans for a new engine? Stay away from nitrous, go with a supercharger!

Interesting....did they replace your carburetor for free?

Dart Iron Eagle 351 Block $2500 same price as 302, don't have to worry about nitrous...the block is good for 2000HP

Want to go with the big bore 4.125" with a 4.00" stroke and a 6.25" rod or longer = 427.6489 cubic inches...gives a rod/stroke ratio of 1.5625 which is above the 1.55 recommended....my 347 was 3.4" stroke with a 5.4" rod = 1.588 ratio want to spin it above 7000rpm, preferably up to 7500rpm

Of course need new bigger cylinder heads, bigger intake manifold, bigger camshaft, bigger carburetor, all engine accessories, transmission, and bigger trans cooler, and a roll cage, racing seats and harnesses, and repaint the whole car...

i'll let you guys know how much it all costs when im done haha...whenever that is...
 

J.Bart

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Joined
Feb 12, 2003
Messages
800
wow! i didn't know you could split a block like that. sorry to see all of your work end up in pieces. i have heard the 302 mexican blocks have more nickel and are stronger, i never thought of an issue like splitting a block. have you considered a 351 cleveland?
 
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davidathans

davidathans

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San Fernando Valley, California
wow! i didn't know you could split a block like that. sorry to see all of your work end up in pieces. i have heard the 302 mexican blocks have more nickel and are stronger, i never thought of an issue like splitting a block. have you considered a 351 cleveland?

I believe that is a mexican 302 block...it was from the 87-95 5.0L mustang.

No point in going with a stock 351C or 351W at this point. I'd rather spend the money on something i know i can't break, a Dart race block.

here is a link to some information on the various choices

http://www.adperformance.com/index....82_104&zenid=3ce6a652c1ab75aa5b27e3372d663142

Im thinking of going with the Dart Iron Eagle 351W Block $2676 (the bottom one from the link), its approx $300 more than the Sportsman, but it has 4 bolts on all 5 main caps instead of just 2,3 and 4. Oil pan might cost more and the dogbone style lifters are expensive too, but this next motor is going to be a bad dude
 
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hookedtrout

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Mar 28, 2003
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Idaho
After reading all your posts I was left with the sense that even though the block split in half you are having one heck of a lot of fun and there will be even more fun in the near future. Good luck getting it all back together, can't wait to see the new results.

Cory
 

rvrtrash

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Joined
Apr 25, 2003
Messages
3,665
I've seen a lot of block damage in my time, but nothing like that. A buddy of mine that's into Jeeping has a broken parts wall in his rec room. That block would earn the place of honor.

Steve
 

Mosesatm

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Jan 18, 2005
Messages
9,177
I've seen a lot of block damage in my time, but nothing like that. A buddy of mine that's into Jeeping has a broken parts wall in his rec room. That block would earn the place of honor.

Steve

Those must be the right-before-it-explodes pictures.
A few more revolutions would have probably created the damage we're used to seeing.
 

Midnight Special

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Nov 5, 2005
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3,714
Location
Grass Valley, California
Wow David! Great story and photos! What's most impressive to me is the engineering, calculation and thought that you apply to maximizing destruction of a small block in addition to your 11-sec quarter-mile. I mean that in an admiring (push the envelope (wide open)) sort of way. I watch the guys at Reno do the same thing year after year... Push an 1800HP V-12 to 4000 to break the 500mph mark with often the same results. I'm only glad yours didn't happen in flight!

Keep up the great work as long as the pocket book permits. It's the American way!
:)
 

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joedls

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Lake Forest, CA
Wow. That sucks, but it gives you an opportunity to build it stronger. One thing I did on my 347 was install valley supports, because this is a known weakness with the factory 302 blocks.

I look forward to the end product, David.
 

Mosesatm

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Wow. That sucks, but it gives you an opportunity to build it stronger. One thing I did on my 347 was install valley supports, because this is a known weakness with the factory 302 blocks.

I look forward to the end product, David.

Interesting. I didn't know such things existed.

http://www.horsepowersales.net/

Here's a good discussion about valley girdles, main cap girdles, and late 302 blocks vs 351 blocks.
http://www.fordmuscle.com/forums/stroker-engines/480624-main-cap-girdle.html

A discussion on 302s splitting down the middle.
http://www.fordmuscle.com/forums/al...-302-block-girdle-can-handle-5600-shifts.html

I had no idea this was such a problem!
 
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case12

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Oct 8, 2004
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1,450
Location
Crystal Lake, IL
David,

I have a mild 289 you can have if you just pay for shipping. It's just sitting around gathering dust.

Casey
 
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