1968 Underside floor question

[classicsguy]

Is RED OXIDE PRIMER the correct factory color for the underside of the 1968 GT/CS?

 

[dalorzo_f]

Yes it is.

 

[Ruppstang]

It actualy was more of a muddy brown than red. Marty

 

[ari guy]

As I understand it, the underside was painted with all the drippings of the colors the factory was painting at that time, they were dribbled into a big barrel and 'whatever' shade of mud that resulted was shot under the next set of cars. Today at car shows all you will see is red oxide primer, and at MCA shows, some clowns that should not be judges will dock you points if it is NOT red oxide primer and original, happened in my day when I used to show cars.

 

[Mosesatm]

But it should be some shade of red oxide because that's what they started with before they dumped in the other colors. The underside of my car is almost pink so they must have painted a lot of white and yellow cars that day!

 

[robert campbell]

My car is sorta a "coppery" brown. The one thing that really sticks out is has a very high gloss to it. It is in no way a flat color.

Rob

 

[Ruppstang]

As I understand it, the underside was painted with all the drippings of the colors the factory was painting at that time, they were dribbled into a big barrel and 'whatever' shade of mud that resulted was shot under the next set of cars. Today at car shows all you will see is red oxide primer, and at MCA shows, some clowns that should not be judges will dock you points if it is NOT red oxide primer and original, happened in my day when I used to show cars.

Well I am one of those MCA clowns a 67-68 gold card gold card judge. I am sorry you may have a bad experance in the past at a MCA event. You must know every judge does not have the same experance. They travel many miles at their own expence and work hard under some tough conditions to judge cars for some people who are very ingrateful for what was given them.
Regarding the under body primer each of the assembly plant did things differently. The San Jose plant used a mudy redish brown primer. All GT-CS were built in the San Jose plant. The Dearborn plant was the one who mixed the left over paint. The color of the day! Marty

 

[Mosesatm]

Here's an old thread about red undersides.

Normal red oxide primer won't work because it absorbs water so an epoxy primer must be used, like PPG's DPLF74.

 

[ari guy]

Sorry Marty, didnt mean to step on any toes. I too have done a bit of judging as well as showing, and understand both sides of the equation. And thanks for clearing up the left-over paint mix was at the Dearborn plant only on the under body primer, and thus would not apply to GT/CS cars.

 

[dalorzo_f]

The red oxide was an epoxy sealer/primer... low gloss, not flat, and waterproof.

And I've seen reference that even as such, it was not 100% consistent across the entire model year, salmon pinkish to muddy brown... so it may have had some slops added which could affect hue across the range of cars made in San Jose for any given year (or day, or week, depending).

Have also seen reference to variations in Metuchen from the "basic black", but still in the "dark-gray-to-black range" as it appears they may have reused some excess paint and adjusted the color from time-to-time to eliminate waste.

 

[Ruppstang]

The red oxide was an epoxy sealer/primer... low gloss, not flat, and waterproof.

And I've seen reference that even as such, it was not 100% consistent across the entire model year, salmon pinkish to muddy brown... so it may have had some slops added which could affect hue across the range of cars made in San Jose for any given year (or day, or week, depending).

Have also seen reference to variations in Metuchen from the "basic black", but still in the "dark-gray-to-black range" as it appears they may have reused some excess paint and adjusted the color from time-to-time to eliminate waste.

You are right about the inconsistancies. but the most common that I have seen is the muddy brown. Most people that ask a question want a singular answer not a range. I have found it best to do a little dective work and in most cases you can find your answer on your own car. And that is the correct color what ever shade. If it is something weird document it as I am sure you will be asked about it by the judges. Marty

 

[Mosesatm]

Some other forums claim there were 2 distinct colors used in San Jose in 1968.

Muddy brown and salmon pink.
I'm pretty sure both of these cars have the salmon pink.
First photo is my car and the 2nd is Jason's

 

[Ruppstang]

Another thing that makes it kind of tricky is that as the paint oxidized the color changes a bit. You are right the first is very pink but the second looks like the brown that is oxidized. Marty

 

[dalorzo_f]

Agree 100% on the " Most people that ask a question want a singular answer not a range. " But the reality is that there was variation, not a one-size-fits-all answer.

Especially on items like this that were never relaly documents by Ford (whoda thunk in ''67 40+ years on it would be being debated?). So either pick a "red oxide" and go with it, or try to find unmolested originals from the same day or week as yours as comps... kinda hard to do.

As for pics on the web, time of day, angle, surrounding surfaces/background, ambient/artifical lighting, flash, etc can make the same color vary wildly...

As for documenting from the car, yes. But if it is off the "one-size-fits-all" answer on the judging sheet you're lost.

So the choices are:

1. accept conventional wisdom and take the one-size-fits-all answer, and if you show hope its accepted
2. do your own research, make a decision, and live with it
3. pick a "red oxide" and accept its "close"

No easy answer that will please everyone. Went for option #3 on mine...

Here's the original unrestored:

And the repaint:

 

[Ruppstang]

On a San Jose car I would not deduct if it were any color of red oxite. It it was detailed like one of the other plants that is a different story. Your car was in nice condition to start with. A tip for those wanting to find their correct color, look above the rear axel in the tunnel usualy where there is a greasy mess use some solvent to remove it and even on a rusty car you can find your own original color. Here is what I ended up with. Marty

 

[dalorzo_f]

Thanks.

I though it was a decent find, even if all the primer (and excessive overspray!) on the rear 1/4's hid some hideous welding by the PO that was covered by about 1/2" of "bog' (Oz speak for bondo!") so all the rear 1/4 rich red was after market, all came off and all new metal put on...

The spot you note was one where the OEM color was left. The respray was "close"... enough for me...!

 

[Russ]

Marty,
My, highland green GT/CS has its factory primer underneath, with its many drips and runs. I decided to just scrub the paint and leave it alone for showing. It is much more pink than brown. You judged my lime gold car at VA Beach which I decided to repaint over the original finish, and it is more brown than pink, but it still has many, many drips and runs. As you stated, if the color is red oxide, no points should be deducted, BUT I think that if the drips and runs are removed, there should be a deduction.
Russ Furstnow, MCA '67-'68 Certified Judge

 

[J_Speegle]

Is RED OXIDE PRIMER the correct factory color for the underside of the 1968 GT/CS?

Just to clarify a thing or two the paint is not really a primer (read flat open texture) but a red oxide colored epoxy primer. As mentioned there are a number of different "tones and tints" depending on when the car was sprayed at San Jose. The epoxy primer/sealer produced a smooth slightly glossy finish originally that better protected the floor pans from the elements than a simple red oxide primer would have

Different tone often used from the firewall forward than what was used from the firewall rearward

All listed (if I recall correctly) in the new book

Hope this helps