1968 Joe's build thread

[Mosesatm]

Shipping in an enclosed trailer is roughly one dollar per mile, and you're 1200 miles from each other.

 

[franklinair]

Google says 960 miles LA to SEA. So that would add $2K to total costs.

Neil

 

[joedls]

Google says 960 miles LA to SEA. So that would add $2K to total costs.

Neil

I think that's air distance, Neil. My phone map app says 1166 miles from Anaheim to Seattle.

 

[franklinair]

Yeah, I didn't figure air versus highway.
Whenever I purchase things, be it for the airport or private reasons I just count shipping costs as the cost of doing business.

Neil

 

[Mosesatm]

Joe,
It's going to be a little more expensive and complicated than we seem to be thinking. Since the car doesn't run you'll pay a premium for shipping, plus how are you going to get all the parts to your destination?

Where's Donna when we need her?!!!

 

[robert campbell]

Joe,
Some thoughts on your engine:

1. I would go to a roller cam for power and vacuum signal. A roller also negates the need for a 20 minute 2,000 rpm cam break in right off the bat. New engines make a ton of heat during this 20 minute break in. I would speak to COMP Cams and get a recommendation.

2. I put an aluminum radiator electric fan combo in mine. This required the Ron Morris mounts to set the engine back a bit. So driveline length will need to be addressed.

3. Boy do I like Stan Johnson (Ford Powertrain Applications) headers tuck up nice and tight. Have them on both my cars.

4. Lentech is the S--T. You will love it. This requires some shifter mods. Not sure if you saw the thread I did on a mod to a stock shifter to prevent accidental shifting into neutral.

5. I put Lokar Cables for both Throttle and Throttle Valve cable on my car. One downside of this is a fairly heavy feel on the pedal. The quality of their bracket is second to none. Check it out below. The Firebird has one on it as it has a Lokar pedal and a 700R4. Comes in natural or black. It does add 1/4 inch to the carb height. What hood are you going to use. The Boss 429 scoop looks bad ass and it allows for a massive hole if needed! The dual spring return ensures no stuck throttles..... Boy am I an ass!!!

http://www.lokar.com/product-pgs/new-products/newproduct-pgs/4150series-for-street.html

6. Is the short block assembled? Are the heads on?

Some other thoughts/questions:

1. I assume the window tracks and regulators are out of the car?

2. Are any brakes functioning?

Now the real question for you. I love projects like this a bit earlier in the fall winter time frame. After Memorial Day and until Labor Day I call "lake time". This means a lot of time away from the shop.

So if I take it now it may take longer. I work about 4 to 5 hours a day seven days a week. This way I stay fresh and do not hurry any items to completion. The Firebird has been in may garage since mid November.

I only charge for hours spent working on the car. I keep a simple paper log of what I did and the hours spent each day. The Firebird was missing a lot of parts and GM is a bit "furrin" (foreign) to me. I can look at a pile of Mustang parts and tell you what is missing. Not so on the turd bird.

I keep all receipts and you may get tired of me calling or e-mailing for thoughts. I keep in constant contact when working on your car.

Rob

 

[Mosesatm]

Joe,
It's going to be a little more expensive and complicated than we seem to be thinking. Since the car doesn't run you'll pay a premium for shipping, plus how are you going to get all the parts to your destination?

Where's Donna when we need her?!!!

Reliable Carriers quote:
Base = $1,386
Non-Running = $100
Delivery to the Boonies = $250
Total = $1,736

 

[rvrtrash]

Brother Rob, If you need a shop grunt on the first weekend of every month, I'm in.

Steve

 

[joedls]

Joe,
Some thoughts on your engine:

1. I would go to a roller cam for power and vacuum signal. A roller also negates the need for a 20 minute 2,000 rpm cam break in right off the bat. New engines make a ton of heat during this 20 minute break in. I would speak to COMP Cams and get a recommendation.

2. I put an aluminum radiator electric fan combo in mine. This required the Ron Morris mounts to set the engine back a bit. So driveline length will need to be addressed.

3. Boy do I like Stan Johnson (Ford Powertrain Applications) headers tuck up nice and tight. Have them on both my cars.

4. Lentech is the S--T. You will love it. This requires some shifter mods. Not sure if you saw the thread I did on a mod to a stock shifter to prevent accidental shifting into neutral.

5. I put Lokar Cables for both Throttle and Throttle Valve cable on my car. One downside of this is a fairly heavy feel on the pedal. The quality of their bracket is second to none. Check it out below. The Firebird has one on it as it has a Lokar pedal and a 700R4. Comes in natural or black. It does add 1/4 inch to the carb height. What hood are you going to use. The Boss 429 scoop looks bad ass and it allows for a massive hole if needed! The dual spring return ensures no stuck throttles..... Boy am I an ass!!!

http://www.lokar.com/product-pgs/new-products/newproduct-pgs/4150series-for-street.html

6. Is the short block assembled? Are the heads on?

Some other thoughts/questions:

1. I assume the window tracks and regulators are out of the car?

2. Are any brakes functioning?

Now the real question for you. I love projects like this a bit earlier in the fall winter time frame. After Memorial Day and until Labor Day I call "lake time". This means a lot of time away from the shop.

So if I take it now it may take longer. I work about 4 to 5 hours a day seven days a week. This way I stay fresh and do not hurry any items to completion. The Firebird has been in may garage since mid November.

I only charge for hours spent working on the car. I keep a simple paper log of what I did and the hours spent each day. The Firebird was missing a lot of parts and GM is a bit "furrin" (foreign) to me. I can look at a pile of Mustang parts and tell you what is missing. Not so on the turd bird.

I keep all receipts and you may get tired of me calling or e-mailing for thoughts. I keep in constant contact when working on your car.

Rob

1. I am definitely planning on a roller cam.

2. I have the Ron Morris engine mounts. That's also what I used before and set the engine back as far as I could. Already have a driveshaft that should work. If not, we can address that.

3. I already have headers that I used before. They fit pretty well. Can't remember the brand off the top of my head. I'm getting too old!

4. I'm pretty sure I'll go with the Lentech.

5. Yes on the Lokar cables. Going to use the 68 CJ scoop. To me, it adds to the "could have come from the factory that way" look.

And FYI, the return spring didn't fail. The AC hose fell and wouldn't allow the linkage to close the throttle. And yes, you're an ass! :wink:

6. The shortblock is assembled. The heads are not on it.

And to your other questions:

1. I don't quite remember but I think they're still on. I'll look tonight when I get home.

2. The brakes are not functioning. In fact, I have to decide what brakes I want. With the horsepower levels I'm going to have, I need to upgrade.

Any progress is better than what's happening now. Taking a little longer won't phase me at all. Especially if I know it's being done right. And I have a sense that if you do the work, you'll treat my car as if it were your own.

Reliable Carriers quote:
Base = $1,386
Non-Running = $100
Delivery to the Boonies = $250
Total = $1,736

The way I see it, if Rob does the work at $40/hr, I'd probably save ~$60/hr on labor. Wouldn't take many hours to re-coup my shipping costs. That's without considering how much time Rob would save because of his wealth of knowledge, both in Mustangs and hot rodding. Like Mike mentioned in his earlier post, if I find a shop here, I'd have to hand walk them through a lot of this. They will more than likely have Mustang experience or hot rodding experience. But not necessarily both.

 

[robert campbell]

Joe,
Rob is not in the boonies, so that will save you $250 bucks!!! Address is:

3235 N. E. Fischer Court
Bremerton, WA. 98310

One thought that went through my mind was to start it up naturally aspirated. Get a few miles on her and then slap the pressure to it. But it is conceivable to go right to the blower set up. The carb we traded for (750 Demon) on my car is very tractable and works quite well. There are all sorts of blower carb options these days, and I prefer Holley or Holley based specialty carbs. Or the new self learning EFI is another thought for step two. I am assuming you will want water methanol injection also? The Snow one I have is a great setup. One time I let the fluid get a bit low and the engine did not like that at all!!!

All of these adjustments right up front will be tricky. If this was my car I would make the blower and the water methanol step two. Do you still have the 670 Street Avenger we traded. It would be great as step one. And boy howdy, step two would be kick ass!!!

You may consider having step two done at your local shop with a dyno available. We could set up the car well enough for you to fly in and drive it home vice shipping.

Rob

 

[Mosesatm]

According to Reliable he is!:grin:

 

[robert campbell]

Well, there you have it!! I am officially trailer trash in the boonies!!

Bro Steve, if you want to spin a wrench, you are always welcome!!! My wife says I am bossy! Only when the help is unskilled!! We will see what you think!!!

Rob

 

[Mosesatm]

It's strange that Reliable would call Bremerton remote but not Spokane.

 

[joedls]

Alright, I think I'm gonna do it.

It'll take me a few weeks to get all my parts together. I have them at 3 different locations. I'm going to go through all of them and determine which I'll re-use and which I'll replace. Maybe I'll bolt the heads, valve covers, and oil pan on the shortblock and place it in the engine bay so it'll transport easier.

Maybe I'll be ready to ship by the end of Feb?

 

[robert campbell]

Joe,
As far as rear ends go, I am running a 3.90 ration 9 inch with a "heavy duty" Yukon True Trac that is a mimic and improved version of the 4 pin Trac Lock of yester year. I am running a set of Mickey Thompson ET Street Radials. P-275 15 inch that are exactly 25 inches tall. They are mounted on a set of 8 inch wide Cragers that were special ordered with more offset back to mount the tire right in the middle of the rear fender and wheel house. My car sits low and I have no issues with tire rubbing. Caltrac Traction bars and Maier Racing subframe connectors. Maiers are the only ones with 4 point mounting on each side to my knowledge. The reach way forward on the torque box and nearly to the top of the arch in the rear frame rail over the axel.

At 70 miles an hour it is right at 2,500 RPM in overdrive. My calculations will set it a 120 mph in 3rd at 6,200 RPM with a bit of torque convertor slippage. Right where I want it. These tires are stupid sticky. With my line lock on dry pavement, I can't hold the car it just skids the tires forward.

Below is a picture of a stock shifter from the right side even though it was welded a bit. You can see the long step in the middle for drive and neutral. The crude drawing from the left is what I did to my stock shifter to make getting into neutral require you to push the button. No more fear of accidentally hitting neutral. Last picture is the finished shifter in my car from the right side. It is in park. Sorry about the flip flopping!! Are you dizzy yet?

Rob

 

[robert campbell]

Alright, I think I'm gonna do it.

It'll take me a few weeks to get all my parts together. I have them at 3 different locations. I'm going to go through all of them and determine which I'll re-use and which I'll replace. Maybe I'll bolt the heads, valve covers, and oil pan on the shortblock and place it in the engine bay so it'll transport easier.

Maybe I'll be ready to ship by the end of Feb?

Joe,
Don't get in a huge hurry. I have a couple small projects to do first. Not very much. We will coordinate a date so I am ready to accept it.

Of note, I have never had a problem with theft or fire or earthquakes to this point. I always tell people I am not an insured business. Most toy cars I work on are insured to some degree.

Rob

 

[robert campbell]

Joe,
Summit sells some heavy duty engine "bags". Or double bag the shortblock with Heftyt bags. Please leave the heads, intake, and pan off. I can handle a short block off the truck with just another guy. I would like to measure pan to oil pick up clearance. My choice would be Cometic head gaskets with ARP head bolts, full lube on the head bolts washers and max torque on the heads. Depending on the cam I would like to measure valve to piston clearance to ensure you have adequate clearance, especially on the exhaust valve. I will break down number 1 valve and install light weight measuring springs and use clay. Val's engine is right above .100 on the exhaust valve next to the 12.5 pop ups. Solid roller with heavy valve springs. You could consider a solid roller vice hydraulic. But we will get recommendations. Val's car needs 7,500 rpm to be all it can be. With a "kompressor" on your motor 6,000 will be a good ceiling. Based on that, a hydraulic roller would be just fine.

I will install a one piece Felpro pan gasket for best sealing. I will degree the cam to ensure the machinist did not fall asleep. We will confirm your choice of timing chain and away we go.

It would go along way for me if you write on the outside of boxes as to what is inside. Try to box interior stuff with interior stuff. I will put a lot of stuff in my loft until needed. It is inside my heated garage.

Some of the above is common sense, and I hope that you take it the right way. The Firebird I just finished was a cluster f--k of parts in boxes. What parts he gave me......

Mo later!!

Rob

 

[robert campbell]

Joe,
I have one of these on both my cars. 5/16 inch fuel sending units and fuel lines will not support your motor. I have 1/2 fuel line all the way to the carb.

http://www.robbmcperformance.com/products/1084_fordsend.html

Back in the day before these I hooked a separate hose of the drain plug in Val's Mustang. Two 5/16 inch feeds into an electric fuel pump at the tank and 1/2 inch forward. No need for that jury rigging these days. And if you go to fuel injection later it is ready for a return line if necessary. This is the S--T as you would expect me to say.

Rob

I need to add a signature to my posts. "No amount of horse power is worth a doo doo if you can't put it on the street"!

 

[robert campbell]

Joe,
Has Arlie told you how much fun it is to spend other peoples money?? I am SOOOO good at it!!

Dusted off the GNS yesterday and blew out some carbon. Dusted off the 13 to 1 hipo in Val's 4 speed Fastback today!!! YAAAAA BAAAAA BEEEEE!!

Burning up dinosaurs never felt so good!!! Louder is better!!! More squeeze weakens my knees!! If the atmosphere is not enough, pressurized it!!!

Rob

 

[Mosesatm]

Rob,
This induction system would look good in Joe's car!