'68 GT/CS vs. '07/'08 GT/CS

[PNewitt]

This is a topic that I feel we need to talk out.

Not that I'm coming up with "one more thing to talk about", but I feel that it's time to hash out the thoughts and feelings about each of our respective CSs, and come to some sort of understanding about just what these Mustangs represent for us.

There is a cultural-social-styling divide between the '67-'68 bodystyle and the '05 bodystyle. Quite a bit of time--38 years-- between these designs, technology, etc. It's like the difference from a 1946 Ford and 1984 Ford (or a horse and carriage and a Model A). You have to ask if there has been too much time between these versions to really connect. But that is up to each owner to define and resolve those differences (perhaps this is something we ALL can discuss in person at Knott's next year).

The advantage of the '68 version is that it's got almost 40 years of heritage, history, and thousands and thousands of hours on the road. The downside is that it's an "old car". The opposite is true with the '07. It's a cool new Mustang that needs time with owners, personal experiences and the reactions from others to get that GT/CS "spirit". Imagine what that will be like in 40 years.

Both versions had similar development at Ford. If you don't think that Ford went far enough for the late model, know that the team did everything they could to make it as unique as possible--only to be challenged with a tighter budget. The '68 version rode on the heels of the Shelby project in '68, and it was a gamble--which didn't quite pay off at the dealer. the '07 had it's own design team, that had to work between SVT and the Mustang variant program. This time, 'tho, it was the Hertz Shelbys (& Shelbt GTs) that used the GT/CS parts--just the opposite as was in '68.

What is very much the same is the enthusiasm of ownership, and knowing that that ownership is exclusive. The (Southern) California car culture is very strong, moreso today; and this limited edition Mustang is a reflection of that culture--something (IMO) that Dearborn can't quite know intimately. It's that feeling of owning this type of Mustang that makes us truly unique and "special".

It's not a Shelby, and it's not a Mustang (in the classic sense); it's a stand-alone Mustang. They both are a GT/California Special!

Your thoughts?

Paul N.

 

[bztz4m]

My feeling on the 07/08 GT/CS is that Ford did not make that car that special, they gave it new front and rear facias and two tone seats with the GT/CS stripe. Don't get me wrong it looks better than the stock Mustang GT but they could have done more. People always ask me what is the difference in the stock GT and the GT/CS and I always say it was cosmetic make over no upgraded performance just a few upgrades. It would have been nice if Ford put a different spoiler with the California Special rear stripe on the back to give it more of the older GT/CS look. It would have also been nice if they gave the car alittle more performance but then the EPA would have stepped in a we would be paying the gas guzzler tax like the Shelby GT has.

Well that is just my two cent for what it is worth.

 

[PNewitt]

I agree that the items may not have been enough to make it totally unique, but the front and rear fascias are totally unique.

Owners can add the Shelby Spoiler, which is available at the Ford Dealer. It's a direct bolt on, and looks great!.

What I'm noticing is that owners of the late models are modifying them with additional stripes (and/or other colors), adding the rear script, and other items that emulate and honor the '68 version.

Paul N.

 

[CougarCJ]

I have a feeling that lots of us have been dancing around this topic in our heads for a while. Our culture says that we have to be PC.

I prefer classic Mustangs 1965-1970, but I also like all of the new Mustangs with the post 2005 body style. I like the Fox platforms after 1985 too. There is a spread in between, that to my taste, is lacking in something. Not performance, but looks.

My feelings drift more towards the "old car" thing.
I belong to several vintage car forums, I read posts and contribute because I want to learn, and help others. I like the problem solving aspect for restoration, repairs, and maintenance of the older cars.

My passion is with the older cars and what makes and keeps them running.
While I like many of the newer sporty cars, such as Corvette, Mustang, the planned Challenger, G35 coupe, S-class MB, I can't get as excited and passionate about them as I do the older cars.

 

[John McGilvary]

IMO Time will tell.

I have had my CS for almost 40 years and there has been many many times I have thought about trading it in for a newer car or making modifications to it.
But I have never found another car that I liked better than my CS. I have owned many other nice new cars in my life, they come and go, but my first car, my 68 CS has never left.

The 07/08 California Specials are very cool Mustangs and I would really like to own one.

" Lets see, if I buy an 08 GT/CS and keep it for 40 years, that will make my
68 GT/CS 80 years old ".

John

 

[Midnight Special]

...People and their individual taste (respect thereof) is all that matters to me. If I'm to show off w/ pride my '68 CS, Mach Is or anything else - I must also respect (and do) newer car and Corvette, Camaro, Chrysler et-al owners likewise. The need to "talk about it" seems to imply that an issue exists of which all we owners have to come up with a group PC agreement to get along here. I don't agree... We is what we is; make the best of it and don't ask what can go wrong - you'll only generate negative answers to take valuable time away from what can go well.

I do think however, that heritage CSs and 07/08 CSs should be displayed in separate groups at some shows. Only for the photo ops tho, not because one outshines the other.

 

[PNewitt]

.. The need to "talk about it" seems to imply that an issue exists of which all we owners have to come up with a group PC agreement to get along here.

Quite the contrary. I opened up the discussion on purpose NOT on any pre-conceived notion or ("PC") expectation, but to air out what people really think; good, bad or indifferent. I never said "let's just pretend to get along". Nope.

If some just like the old cars, fine, if someone else prefers a new CS, that's fine, too. But I'd like to let everyone speak their minds, and say what they will, new, old, whatever. There is a lot to be learned by both groups. New owners may never have heard an FE motor at 8 grand RPM. The old owners may have never seen EFI. So--it's a learning curve both ways.

If some just can't get into the new bodystyle, that's fine. Maybe late model owners find the '68 body style "ancient". Who knows? No one "has to" like anything....to appease anyone. I just want to hear what people think.

This is a perfect place to air out the opinions. All I'm saying is that the excitement of owning a GT/CS should be respected--regardless of yr. of GT/CS. I've seen a lot of it in the late model owners that come in here, and I hope to respect that enthusiasm.

So--let's keep at it. We need to hear from more owners...

Paul.

 

[Russ]

Paul,
I guess I'm a bit confused about what you are asking. Are you interested in our thoughts/opinions about the two GT/CS versions, or are you asking if the new version should be included in the "classic" GT/CS group as an "equal", or should the new GT/CS be given the same emphasis in your new book? I guess I'm not really clear. I noted you used the term vs. (versus) in the title of the post, so I'm guessing that you believe the cars are competing on some level.

Here is my personal view: The new Mustang GT/CS is a far superior car (engineering and quality) than my '68's, but both cars are fun (and different) to drive and both get a tremendous amount of attention. Since I own a classic and a new style GT, I am able to recognize the qualities of both cars. I think my '68's have stood the test of time and therefore should have a greater "status" in the Mustang community, but here again, that my opinion.

I know this site has become much more popular since the 2007 GT/CS was introduced, and I find that some the the discussions relating to the new car don't interest me too much. If there is a special place at the Knott's Show for the GT/CS, will the new cars be parked next to the classic models??? I hope not. All of these questions become very touchy and complicated. My personal opinion is that the cars share the same name and heritage, BUT they are completely different and should be treated as such. Just my opinion,

Russ

 

[Midnight Special]

Paul, you began this with "need to talk out...." and ".....it's time to hash out the thoughts and feelings........... and come to some sort of understanding about just what these Mustangs represent for us."

My opinion is it's a very individual thing and each of us already understands what our cars represent to us. This is evidenced by the year & style we buy.

But when you say "us"; are you attempting collective "mastery of the obvious"?

 

[PNewitt]

I don't think that overthinking what I said or how I said it is worth getting into. Another thread (Re:Knott's show) had a moment when a late model owner felt a little offended, and I wanted to take the opportunity to let everyone "vent" their opinions, so everyone knows where they stand on this. There is no need to justify what/how I'm asking, so I just asked it.

We have a unique situation here, where there is a 38 year gap between our Mustangs. This is not uncommon, for example, how would the "Dukes Fans'" '68-9 Charger owners like the new Charger in their car show? Or what about any other marque that's bringing back old names and reliving the 60's by car companies to sell cars. i.e. New /old Camaros, Challengers, etc... It's not limited to Mustangs. How do the '69-'73 Mach 1 folks feel about the '98 (??) Mach 1's?

Because of how small our marque is, whether by intent or just default, we are together--old and new. I just wanted to ferret out ideas, and/or reactions. Maybe that's too nebulous, or "free thinking" for your palette (Tim), but I just wanted to set the stage for varying opinions. Russ' comments were right on target (BTW-thanks, Russ!).

I used "vs." as an attention getter for the thread. I thought by assuming there was a competition, it would get a response. It's up to those who respond to tell me (us) if there is one.

Whether folks write or not, they can read this, and talking about it gets folks to think about what is what, and it fosters good conversation at car shows, because they are well-informed. For example, how do '68 owners think about the new CSs, when those owners are trying to make theirs look more like the originals?

Again, I'm not trying to overthink it, just talk it out, because I think there are a lot of the late model owners that (may) feel that the '68 owners have some animosity towards the new car. Yes? No? What?

If you could see the (wonderful) mail I get from the late model owners, you'd know why I'm asking this question.

Paul N.
p.s. what's HotRodGranny's thoughts on this?

 

[Mosesatm]

Paul, I don't know if this is where you are trying to go but since you opened the door I'll be the evil non-pc person and walk through it. I apologize if it is off-topic.

It seems to me that the posters who own the old cars and the posters who own the new cars, for the most part, have completely different interests and generally don't care about what each other has to say regarding each other's cars. We just seem to tolerate each other car-wise. That said, in my cynical outlook I see 2 possibilities for this site.

1. The site will go the way of the Mach 1 site which seems to be dominated by the owners of the new model.

2. The owners of the new cars will get bored with us talking about the old cars and will not contribute as much as they could and should. They will eventually get tired of listening to the old-car group talk about Lucas lights, and witness lines, and start their own site.

Granted there are some new model owners who are very active on the site but it's gotta be rough on newbies trying to fit in with an established group of old car enthusiasts and I applaud the ones who have been successful.

 

[bztz4m]

1. The site will go the way of the Mach 1 site which seems to be dominated by the owners of the new model.

2. The owners of the new cars will get bored with us talking about the old cars and will not contribute as much as they could and should. They will eventually get tired of listening to the old-car group talk about Lucas lights, and witness lines, and start their own site.

Granted there are some new model owners who are very active on the site but it's gotta be rough on newbies trying to fit in with an established group of old car enthusiasts and I applaud the ones who have been successful.

On these points I would have to agree with Mosesatm, sometime I feel like an outsider being a owner of an '07 but I really like the older Mustangs it is really cool to see something that is 40 years old still looking like show room new. Maybe there should be a sub section on this forum for just the 07/08's but that would be up to the webmaster. As for the Knott's show I know they would not park the '68 and 07/08 cars together since that is just the way it works at that show so the '68 owners will have nothing to fear about that. And at this point I really don't care one way or the other on this issue. Maybe the 07/08 can band together at the show and park together...

Just my thoughts.

 

[CougarCJ]

We have a unique situation here, where there is a 38 year gap between our Mustangs. This is not uncommon, for example, how would the "Dukes Fans'" '68-9 Charger owners like the new Charger in their car show? Or what about any other marque that's bringing back old names and reliving the 60's by car companies to sell cars. i.e. New /old Camaros, Challengers, etc... It's not limited to Mustangs. How do the '69-'73 Mach 1 folks feel about the '98 (??) Mach 1's?

I'll offer another example of which I have some inside knowledge.

The Gone in 60 seconds Eleanor cars.
Most of you probably know that the company building them is 'allowed' to put official Shelby VIN tags and are recognized in the Shelby Registry as continuation cars. Ol' Carroll lets them through a licensing agreement. Which of course is a big money maker for him and his charity. I have no problem with the Shelby name on the cars and his collecting 'tribute' money.

But, I can tell you that the Shelby owners generally feel that it cheapens their purpose built cars from new. This is the general consensus as told by a very good friend of mine. (who is a past officer in a SAAC chapter)
My friend is confident that time will tell, and those 'recreation clones' will not hold their values and will only trade for a marginal premium over a fastback Mustang.

Like I said before, I like the new Cal Specials. As has been said before, imitation is the sincerest form of flattery.

Paul,
Here is my personal view: The new Mustang GT/CS is a far superior car (engineering and quality) than my '68's, but both cars are fun (and different) to drive and both get a tremendous amount of attention.
Russ

To add to what Russ said, the new cars can do everything better, faster, and do it using less fuel and much lower emissions.

What the new cars cannot do is put me into a different place, a fun place.

Almost like a time machine. LOL

 

[Perkchiro]

Gosh, I have a headacheonder:. Really though, what matters to me is that I enjoy cars of all styles and types. If it runs on 4 wheels, I'm interested. The new mustang and our classics are two different breeds, and I can't really see a great similarity or comparison of the two. The technology of the new cars makes them safer, handle better with more power and comfort features that make them a pleasure to drive. The retro look of the new mustang is a design masterpiece IMO, and really captures the past with the modern features included. I don't think the GT/CS add on was too much of a design upgrade on the part of Ford. You can see that by many of the new CS owners adding their own California Special emblems and stripes. I love my classic GT/CS and I wouldn't mind having a new one sitting right beside it. I consider it an honor that new CS owners desire a place on this site for camaraderie and conversation.

 

[rvrtrash]

I guess I'll throw my hat in the ring too. I like the new (05-07) Mustang body style. I have absolutely nothing against the new CS's or their owners. I understand them modifying their cars to look more like the originals because the originals are distinctive and Ford dropped the ball. I remember back in the dark ages we added all kinds of stuff to cars-wheels, decals, shackles, traction bars, engine goodies- it's no different now. I think they should be included in anything we do because they bring new life to our passion. As for car shows, they either seem to be a free for all-parked in the order they arrive-or divided by make/model/generation. The new ones would be parked next to the old, showing a "timeline" if you will. Just my nonsensical late night rant, but I say drop the whole subject, and lets get on with being a family.

Steve

 

[Midnight Special]

"Maybe that's too nebulous, or "free thinking" for your palette (Tim),"

...On the contrary. I'm just not "Paul'itically Correct"...

 

[Mustanglvr]

I`m proud to have the owners of the new GT/CS`s as members on this site. They share the same exact passion for their cars as we do. This site runs parallel most of the time with the 68 owners chatting among themselves and the 07-08 owners chatting among themselves. But I think thats great!!! WE are all learning about the 07-08`s and about the 68`s. How much better can that get? I have yet to see an 07 in person, but my friend Hotrodgrany (owner of a beautiful 07 GT/CS) and I are working on it.

We ARE all getting along and yes, it was inevitable that someone would say something that would insult a new owner (like in the Knotts thread.) I believe the new GT/CS`s BELONG right beside the 68`s, only to be seperated by year and nothing else. When the Knott`s thread began, I had visions of a row of beautiful 68`s and a row of beautiful 07-08`s right beside them.

Just like the GT/CS`s (new and old) we are comprised of different generations, and ideas, but we all have the same thing in common. The love of the GT/CS, it`s beauty, history and uniqueness. I enjoy reading the posts about the new cars and I know the owners of the new ones enjoy reading the posts about the old ones. Many of us do not always post a reply. We ALL belong here together. There is a place for all of us.

I know Paul was just trying to get everybody on the same page. I know I`ve tried to put Paul in his place before about things he has posted, but he is truly just trying to open up our eyes to see what a great family we have here. We have 2 generations of interest. Let`s learn from each other and just be a family.

 

[390cs68rcode]

For what it's worth I like the 68 CS's and really am not interested in the new CS's. Nothing against the new ones but they just don't interest me......only the 68's do.

...On the contrary. I'm just not "Paul'itically Correct"...

now that's funny.

 

[PNewitt]

It seems to me that the posters who own the old cars and the posters who own the new cars, for the most part, have completely different interests and generally don't care about what each other has to say regarding each other's cars. We just seem to tolerate each other car-wise. That said, in my cynical outlook I see 2 possibilities for this site.

1. The site will go the way of the Mach 1 site which seems to be dominated by the owners of the new model.

2. The owners of the new cars will get bored with us talking about the old cars and will not contribute as much as they could and should. They will eventually get tired of listening to the old-car group talk about Lucas lights, and witness lines, and start their own site.

Granted there are some new model owners who are very active on the site but it's gotta be rough on newbies trying to fit in with an established group of old car enthusiasts and I applaud the ones who have been successful.

I really appreciate your comments Arlie. It makes total sense. I make a better Registrar them "therapist" in this thread (LOL!), but the points are well taken. It's NOT that there has to be any particular point of view about this, I was just trying to get some opinions and thoughts. Some can think of the new models like a sibling, some as a distant cousin, and some as a "shirt tale relative". But, we are all related, in the metaphoric sense.

What we have is what we have. Talking about this helps everyone, because it provides a perception of where we stand.

What you said is not off-topic. It's right on.

thanks, Paul.

 

[PNewitt]

On these points I would have to agree with Mosesatm, sometime I feel like an outsider being a owner of an '07 but I really like the older Mustangs it is really cool to see something that is 40 years old still looking like show room new. Maybe there should be a sub section on this forum for just the 07/08's but that would be up to the webmaster. As for the Knott's show I know they would not park the '68 and 07/08 cars together since that is just the way it works at that show so the '68 owners will have nothing to fear about that. And at this point I really don't care one way or the other on this issue. Maybe the 07/08 can band together at the show and park together...

Just my thoughts.

I don't really have a strong opinion on this one way or another, but my job as Registrar is to treat these cars equally. I provide the history and information, and let owners and enthusiasts decide what they like and want to own. I think that perhaps Jon (webmaster) could provide some "sticky", or separate pages for the late model GT/CS. I'm sure that late model owners have cruised by this site, and thought it wasn't for them by the looks of it. So--there might be another site just for the late model CSs. I've seen the late model sites, and they are another world--in that sense; and they are quite good!

Only time will tell. But, what I suggest is at least understand and share the enthusiasm for this same Mustang marque between us all.

Paul N.