1968 GT/CS Square 8 or Marchal?

[patnpat]

Hi All:

Our GT/CS (8R01C154208) was purchased in 1988 and has spent most of its life since in storage. It is mostly original with an unfortunate incorrect repaint. It has always been missing the driver’s side Lucas Square 8.

We had assumed the car had been delivered with the Lucas lights. Now we are not so sure.

The one Lucas light we do have was not properly mounted. The square base was painted black and mounted on top of the pedestal. (see pic)

Our car was built on March 28. According to the theCoralsnake.com website “all cars built after April 5th ..[had].. Lucas lamps. Cars built before this date may have either the Marchal lamps or the Lucas driving lamps, if the Marchals were replaced”. (That site only applies to Shelby’s, but I would imagine the same recall applies to the GT/CS). This seems to be confirmed by reviewing serial numbers in the registry.

There is a bracket behind the grille which has holes that look like they are in the correct place for mounting the Marchals (see pic). Were those brackets changed/removed when production was switched to the Lucas lights?

I have read somewhere that dealer-replaced lights were installed inconsistently and in many different ways. I have seen pictures of Lucas lights installed with and without the pedestal. What would be correct given that a dealer would have done the installation?

I also would like to know where the wiring for the Lucas lights run through the grille. Some close-up pictures would be quite helpful.

To summarize our questions:
1. Is it likely our car came with the Marchal fog lights?
2. Did the grille brackets change once the switch was made to the Lucas fog lights?
3. Given that dealers installed the Lucas lights inconsistently, would any mount be acceptable?
4. Where should I route the wiring through the grille?

We greatly appreciate any help you can give us.

Pat

 

[Ruppstang]

Hi Pat You car could have had either light originally but is hard to tell since the Marshal brackets were left in place when the Lucas lights were installed. I also have seen a number of cars using the Shelby pedestal. LOL that they have both on your one. As a MCA judge I would only except the correct Lucas mounting pedestal. I routed my wiring through the mounting hole in the Marshal bracket.

I would like to see pictures of your car and welcome to the site.
Marty

 

[Mosesatm]

Pat,
I think you have a regular '68 grille instead of a GT/CS grille, and that hole is for the corral. It would help if you could send a photo from farther back.

 

[dalorzo_f]

This shot shows the difference between a stock '68 (off the car in-hand) and a repro "kinda" GT/CS grille (modified '67 repro). Note all the mounting points for the horse/corrals on the stock one.

 

[Ruppstang]

Here is a picture of a original HCS / GTCS grill with the Marchal brackets.
Marty

 

[patnpat]

Sorry for the delay in responding, but we are out of town for my wife’s High School Reunion.

Marty:

Thanks for the information. I bet the lucas lights were installed by the dealer as I can’t believe that both pedestals would have been installed at the factory. When the car was purchased it only had one light. The driver’s side was missing. The one light is correct with “England” on the lens. We were able to find a pair of incorrect Square 8’s and those are on the car now (with the small pedestals). I have tried to find replacement pedestals, to no avail.

Thanks for the picture of the Marchal mount. It looks like about 24 of the little grille rectangles have been cut out to accommodate the bracket. Is that true or just an optical illusion? The one bracket hole we have is about 6 rectangles in and 6 rectangles down on the grille (if that makes sense) and is directly behind the Square 8. It is located on the bracket and is behind the rectangle of the grille (not on the grille).

Mosesatm and dalorzo_f:
Sorry, I can’t get a picture from further away (I tried). The car is on a lift in our house (not the garage; that was my wife’s idea). We do not have any of the holes/mounts as shown on the stock grille.

It might be a modified ’67 grille with one of the vertical supports removed and the “Pony” emblem bracket removed. When we get home I will see if I can find any tell-tale signs.

My wife’s father has close ties to the Ford dealer in Corvallis. He restored (more accurately preserved) many Mustangs (as well as Packards, Rolls Royces, Cadillacs, Marmons, Franklins, and so on).

When he obtained a car he would go to the dealer and buy up all of their NOS parts. He could have used a ’67 grille if he was not happy with the GT/CS grille.

He knew he was dying when he acquired this car for my wife’s son who was 13, and took him out to drive it. Life happens and that is why it spent so much time is storage. My wife put the car in her son’s and her name to protect it. Good idea, when he turned 25 he wanted to sell it to buy stereo equipment!

Thanks for all the info,
Pat

 

[Mosesatm]

You're right, it is a '67 grille with the vertical supports still intact.
Here is a drawing of the GT/CS grille

 

[Batgirl89]

bob might have a set of proper fog light mounts, that is who I bought mine from for my grey GT/CS (I still need to install them!!)

 

[somethingspecial]

GT/CS cars were equipped with Marchal fog lights up until April 26th, 68. After April 26th, all GT/CS cars were equipped with Lucas lights from the factory, mounted on the round pedistals. All GT/CS grilles were 67' grilles with fog light brackets regardless of what light was installed. After April 26th, all cars delivered with Marchal lights were subject to a recall to retrofit the Lucas lights, but not all GT/CS owners took part in the recall. The reason the grilles were still equipped with the fog light brackets after April 26th is because the grilles were already built and in stock for GT/CS production. When the factory switched over, the Lucas fog light wiring was routed through the hole in the fog light bracket. Your car built in March would have been delivered from the factory with Marchal fog lights. Dealers retrofitting the Lucas lights often installed them wrong and we have seen several ways they were mounted. The Lucas lights were delivered to the dealers with the square bases as that is how Lucas intended them to be installed, however, Ford intended the lights to be installed on the round pedistals to elivate the lights to the center of the grille. The square bases were to be discarded and not used in the installation.

Photos below are:
1) Correct height of fog light installed on pedistals.
2) Incorrect installation with fog light installed on square base only.
3) Incorrect installation with fog light using square base on round pedistal.
4) Incorrect way to adjust fog lights. LOL
Mike

 

[patnpat]

Thanks for all the info. It is quite helpful. I have PM’d Bob but have not yet heard back about the pedestals.

Mike, So all GT/CS grilles were modified ‘67’s? I see on our grille that there used to be a vertical bracket just off center, but has been removed.

The picture from Marty and the drawing from Mosesatm show 24 of the little rectangles opened up making a large hole to accommodate the Marchal bracket. Our grille does not have the large hole for the bracket. Would I be correct to assume that my wife’s father replaced the grille with a NOS 67 grille?

I guess our car was not the only one that used both the square base and round pedestal

Pat

 

[Mosesatm]

To make a GT/CS grille from a '67 all 3 vertical bars are removed, then the foglight brackets are installed where the two outer bars were.

 

[patnpat]

Thanks for the information. Does anyone make the Marchal brackets? I don't plan to modify the grille, but would like to know if it can be done.

Pat

 

[Mosesatm]

Delta Bay Mustang
http://www.deltabaymustang.com/

 

[patnpat]

Thank you. I'll give them a call tomorrow. My sister lives in Brentwood, where they are located!

Pat

 

[platnumheart666]

Hi Pat You car could have had either light originally but is hard to tell since the Marshal brackets were left in place when the Lucas lights were installed. I also have seen a number of cars using the Shelby pedestal. LOL that they have both on your one. As a MCA judge I would only except the correct Lucas mounting pedestal. I routed my wiring through the mounting hole in the Marshal bracket

Question, If a GT/CS was made before April but sold way later in the year and the dealership installed the Lucas lights using the Shelby pedestal and not the proper ones, would an MCA judge cut points due to installing the original Marchal (still has proper grill with brackets) or would they go off of the sale date which would be such that the dealer definitely would have installed the Lucas by?

Also, the side marker lights are the later version. Any idea when this change happened, off hand? I just have not searched the forum for the answer yet.

-Annie

 

[Ruppstang]

As MCA gold card judge I do not deduct for inconsistencies provided there is compelling documentation that it was delivered from the dealer that way. Often this type of documentation is difficult to come up with. I am certain that the dealer would have complied with the recall before the sale.

I use January 15th as a cut off for the recessed quarter reflector but is not a hard date because the parts in the system were used till they ran out.
Good questions I find these kind of details interesting.
Marty

 

[sportyworty]

Feb 15 would be more accurate.
There is a change published date think it is Feb 22
I have seen several Feb cars with the later reflectors. Never seen a Jan build with late quarters.

Like you say with overlap based on cars bucked already and inventory levels of early panel at the 3 plants.

 

[Ruppstang]

Feb 15 would be more accurate.
There is a change published date think it is Feb 22
I have seen several Feb cars with the later reflectors. Never seen a Jan build with late quarters.

Like you say with overlap based on cars bucked already and inventory levels of early panel at the 3 plants.

Thanks Kerry I was think one thing and typed another. You are correct.
Marty

 

[platnumheart666]

As MCA gold card judge I do not deduct for inconsistencies provided there is compelling documentation that it was delivered from the dealer that way. Often this type of documentation is difficult to come up with. I am certain that the dealer would have complied with the recall before the sale.

Sounds like I better go with the Lucas posts. I really like the look of the Marchal, but your right, the dealer would have complied by the sale date.

Is it easy to acquire the posts alone, so I can modify the Shelby Lucas fogs to them?

 

[franklinair]

Bob Teets made/sold them. (I have a set if needed)

Neil