California Special Script (PAUL NEWITT)

[robert campbell]

As usual Paul brings more clarity by bringing up other known facts such as GT/CS "only" front fenders. I would assume that the punch and dies that created the holes for the horse and bar emblem could be removed from the front fender forming die. They had to be sharpened from time to time, so they would be removeable. That would allow for special runs of front fenders for GT/CS cars without the horse and bar, and service replacement front fenders with their own part numbers for front end "owies" later on GT/CS cars. Why they deleted the horse and bars on the GT/CS is another story, but they did!

Adding punch and dies to the existing rear quarter panel forming dies to punch the holes for the script would be challanging, and at such a late date, I bet not done.

So templates and drilling for the rear script were certainly used on the early cars, and I bet all of the GT/CS cars in the line. And a left template used on the right hand side would more than likely explain the car that Kevin is looking at and I bet many of the other cars that are similar.

The fun continues!!!

Rob

 

[somethingspecial]

Correct me if I'm out of line, but it would make sense to drill the qtrs. after the car was built, as even the HCS cars were designated as GT/CS Package. They did not have script, nor pre punched holes. Just another thought. Mike

 

[John McGilvary]

Correct me if I'm out of line, but it would make sense to drill the qtrs. after the car was built, as even the HCS cars were designated as GT/CS Package. They did not have script, nor pre punched holes. Just another thought. Mike

That makes very good sense to me Mike, but could they have just used stock 68 qtrs on the HCS's? I admit the holes could have been drilled, but to me its not likely to think a guy on the line was running around drilling all them holes, getting most of them in the right place. The script holes on my CS look like they were punched, or some guy on the line had a very steady hand and a very sharp drill.

All this talk about holes, my wife told me to get a life!
John

 

[68 GTCS]

Ok, Lets assume for a minute that they were punched, why the backwards script on the the chosen few? could the dies that punched the holes for the drivers side could possibly have been used on the pass. side? maybe they needed sharpening and when removed were replaced with the drivers side dies by mistake. and when it was notice that they were wrong they just let them go though thinking no one would notice such a minor detail. (Except the GTCS crowd 40 years later, because we don't have a life)----I'll be right back I need to see if Paul sent the pre-order form yet.


Kevin

 

[robert campbell]

John/Mike,
I would suppose that the cars destined to by HCS’s could have got stock quarters. The most telling thing to me is the non-availability of replacement GT/CS quarters. If the forming die for the 68 stock quarters had the ability to have the dies and punches inserted to make GT/CS quarters, it would make sense that replacements would have been available.

In the 1986 registry there are pics of the first cars with chalk drawings of the script on the side. This coupled with the fact that the script was the last GT/CS option approved certainly leads to the fact that the first cars were drilled. From my experience in the sheetmetal trade the thought of punching a formed fender or punching a fender on an assembled car would be difficult at best and nearly impossible if the quarter was on the car.

Further evidence that the holes for the hood locks were cut in after the hood was painted leads me to believe that these cars were brought to life as GT/CS cars in a special area or special line near the end of assembly of the car.

The script holes on the full production cars been drilled prior to the painting later on. Makes sense to do it before painting if you know for sure that the car was destined for GT/CS completion. So paint in the holes could be there if the hole was punched or drilled. Typical process for drilling is a template with the location holes that can be attached and then a spring loaded duplicating punch is use so the template is not wore out by drilling through it. A center punch mark is place in the quarter and then drilled.

Wish I could get in the “wayback” machine and deliver myself to 1968! “Alright guys, 40 years from now a bunch of people will spend hours trying to figure out how these holes got here”. “Holes will consume their lives”!!!

Bet they would tell me to get a life…… Rob get a life…..

Rob

 

[robert campbell]

Kevin,
Man do we need lives!!!

If they were punched in the forming process of the quarter from a raw sheet of flat metal they would have to have a left and right form for the each quarter panel. So the dies and punches would only fit in the form in one position to punch the holes properly. In my old "need a life" mind that would make the punched theory not probable.

So in my 52 year old pickled mind we are back to a flipped template used to mark holes for drilling an assembled body.....

I feel very confident that if they were not punched in the forming process of the raw quarter panel, they were not punched, but drilled.

Back to "tooter turtle" and the wayback machine....

Rob

 

[68 GTCS]

I like throwing other ideas in the mix, but I still think they were drilled using a template to mark the holes, that would explain the human error factor. If it was done with machines, or any other way but templates, I don't think it could be explained. Human error seams to be the case. But also remember, if they weren't all made at the same time it was probably cost effective to drill them rather than to make a machine to pop the holes, it would also would explain the probability of several DIFFERENT people doing the drilling, who ever was on duty that shift (how does this side go on?)

Kevin

 

[mmarsalone]

I've been following this thread and I don't know whether they were punched or drilled. I can't understand what kind of template for drilling would allow itself to be placed on the wrong side. Has anyone measured the holes to see if they are identical to the driver's side? Wouldn't the template be curved to match the curve of the fender ( from top to bottom) so as to maintain some precision in duplication? So if the driver's side template was used on the passenger side and the curve was maintained, then the upper script or "California" would still be to the up and left of "Special" Picture walking the template around the car in your minds eye....? Unless it was a flexible template that allowed itself to be bent to either side. I'm sure others are more familiar with this type of work, but the templates I've seen for drilling are rigid and have specific mounting to allow some sort of precision.

I'll be the first to say it, I'm sure those with reversed script want to believe it came that way from the factory, but I don't think they were. I agree there was human error and probably still today, I don't see this happening. I agree with Paul's original theory that it was a previous repair.

 

[PNewitt]

Well, well....lots to say.

I'm going to interview Tom McIntyre of ASCSO, that designed and made the script back in 1968. Tom was a HS student back then, and in fact, our hood pins was his personal project. The later, larger chrome version of the same pins were used on the '69 Shelby--and--the Hurst Olds, too!

I'll ask him how they did it. I like the theory of the punched spot first, then drilled. I'm thinking that it may have been one of those multi-drill units that they use on other parts of the car. I'll get to the bottom this.

As for the reversed template on the other side, I think that to do that, the holes wouldn't fit the script, because it is not symmetrical. You have to think that out in four dimentions!

More to follow. I know there is a "hole" metaphor joke in there, but I can't think of it right now...LOL!!

Paul N.

 

[robert campbell]

The templates could have very well been flexible. They may have been made of flexible plastic to not mar the cars finish. Way back in another thread I commented that my car had the holes in a very high position on my right quarter. Similar to the cars at the 15 February debut. I have some pics in my gallery. I can still see the higher holes in my right quarter panel. Left one was replaced. This was way back in 1989 so like an idiot I used some poster board paper and templated another GT/CS in my area to locate my holes. Of course, I made a left and right hand template. Located the holes in the traditional GT/CS location with the right hand script in proper relation. Thinking back it would be very easy to use the left template “flipped or back side” on the right quarter and it would duplicate the backward script on the right side.

We seem to have more than a few examples of this happening. Unless the quarter was destroyed beyond recognition, I doubt that numerous cars would be in wrecks of that magnitude, all with absent minded body shop guys. Why no cars with backwards left hand scripts?? Hmmmmm……

A telling point would be for Kevin to measure the car he found and locate the most aft peg of the “special” script on both sides of the car. If both sides are similar fore and aft and up and down, it may mean a flipped template if the sheetmetal date codes on both quarters are similar. I doubt that the body man who absently mindedly templated the left side, to apply it to the right side of a car that had a right quarter destroyed beyond recognition, would select a properly dated coded quarter panel.

Kevin; Get up there and get the date codes off both quarters of that GT/CS!! I bet like you that it still has its original quarters on it. That would go a long way to proving it was a factory error.

Holes holes holes…. Most in my head….

Rob

 

[Mustanglvr]

Does anybody know of any anomalies on a regular 68 coupe Mustang? Like extra holes?

Has it been established that any of these cars had simular build dates or anything like that in common?

My car has no "Mustang" script or holes on the front fenders. I was told the fenders are original to the car. ????

 

[68 GTCS]

I dug up a set of original California Special scripts that I had put away some time ago and did some investigating. The pin or post on the "C" of California is higher than the other two, which would mean that it would be impossible for the left side template to be inverted and used on the right side. UNLESS there were two individual templates, one for California and one for Special. Then it would come down to whoever was installing the script on the rear quarters on that shift may have thought it was suppose to match the drivers side script and did so thinking that it was correct. Which would explain a few slipping through the cracks. Anybody have any duct-tape to keep my head from exploding. I will try to get the date codes off of the quarters in a couple off weeks when he returns from vacation, I would go look now but it is being watched by SAM COLT. :scared:
What do you think of this twist.

Kevin

 

[robert campbell]

Kevin is correct!!! A single template with holes for both scripts would not work backwards. Now my mind is a blank... Now I need to sit and look at holes until my eyes cross and go shut.....

Rob

 

[PNewitt]

Hole-ley-Mole-ley

Does anybody know of any anomalies on a regular 68 coupe Mustang? Like extra holes?

Don't tell Robert THAT! He'll go NUTS! LOL!! Oh, NOOOO!!!

Here are TWO more holes on a GT/CS for those that need to know.....

Open the trunk, and look in the lower right corner. There is one hole. Then, run your fingers up at the inside lip of the open trunk lid, and there is a square hole. That is for a trunk light, and the small hole is for the wire to go from the trunk area up to the light inside the trunklid.

This is a leftover, unused part of that fact that the GT/CS used the Shelby convertible trunklids.

But, of course, you could always add a "Shelby" trunk light.

Paul N.

 

[John McGilvary]

I hope you guys come up with the answer of the holes soon cause my wife will put a hole in me if I don't stop talking about it.
I know my CS is original and has never had anything replaced, except for a tune up, so lets get this question of the holes resolved before we all go crazy.

John

 

[68 GTCS]

I think that the script positioning is very important, if it can be proved that the script was incorrectly placed at the factory, it would make a difference on restoration, whether you were building a points car or not. For example, If I bought this car that I found in the weeds do I plug the holes and correctly place the script or do I leave it like it is and have a car that is unique but factory correct! If a cs with incorrect script was to be judged at a car show would you be docked for that imperfection? With the judges thinking that YOU were the absent minded bodyman?

Thoughts

Kevin

 

[robert campbell]

After much thought and standing by my car on my head inside out, I have come up with some more thoughts. Kevin is correct that a left side template whether flexible or not could not have been flipped, slipped, ripped, or dipped to create the situation we are seeing with the California forward of the Special on the right hand side. I am starting see quarter panels in my sleep…..

Kevin may be on to something with a template for each script piece, but that seems like a lot of work to keep the relationship between each piece consistent. But believe me I am not discounting that one either!!

Now in my old mind the only thing that comes to me now is one flexible template that had two script sub-templates mounted “asymmetrical” in the middle of a rectangle cut so to speak out of the quarter. If they drilled through the template vice center punching, they could wear or enlarge the holes so to speak. So maybe the sub-template had the rectangular holes in it for the actual location of the script holes. And so from time to time you could insert a new rectangle sub-template in the large template with new, fresh holes.

So now that you are grasping at this tiny straw with me……….

The line worker could have flipped it upside down and inserted the new California script location holes in the location that normally had the Special script in it. So to speak the left side thought flipped upside down and backwards, Or is that downside up and frontward?? Boy would that take a lot of stuff the night before.

Now we are really grasping!!!

I like John’s other thread. Find the cars with this anomaly and group them.

Paul help!!!! My wife is packing her suitcase!!! After 29 years of marriage!

Rob

 

[Mustanglvr]

Soooo, would the same worker that put in the holes, be the same worker that applied the script? Maybe the guy with the drill or the punch was having an off-day and the guy applying the script just went along with the mistake.

Could the mistake have happened during the strike, when the rear side reflectors changed?

Does anybody know what numbers are on the front fenders to be specific California Special fenders?

 

[John McGilvary]

Nope, even though it rains up in your part of the world (LOL)...you're not all wet.

If the qtr. panels were pre-made, they'd have their own part number. A little known fact is that the GT/CS has their own front fender part numbers; because of no holes for the horse and bars emblems (never used on the CS). Pre-made quarters would have specifically assigned part numbers. They didn't.

My opinion is that since Ford "relented" at the last minute to include the script, that may have not been prepared, and/or so inclined to do the holes in as standard a way like other emblem holes on other parts of the car.

So--it left a lot of problems for servicing, and repair over the years.

Paul N.

Paul, what are the front fender part #'s, and where are they located on the fenders? Are you still going to interview that guy who designed the script?

John

 

[hicountrybob]

I found another CS in the weeds. it was a 289 4-speed car I believe, motor gone but tranny is there. Anyway, the CS script is reversed on the right side, Special is before California, that has been mentioned a couple of time here before. A Friday or Monday car? Anyway I am waiting to see what he wants for it. Its kinda rough but the fiberglass parts are there.

Paul the vin is 8RO1C167096 is this in your registry?

Thanks,
Kevin

I would bet a $1 to a donut that this car is a HCS. I don't have it in my registry but I do have 167087, 093, 097, 099, 100, 101, 108, 110, 111 etc., so this car fits right there in the sequence. Also FYI, in the mid '80's, I walked into a new area Mustang restro. shop in Lakewood, Co. and saw a HC that was thought to be a Cal. Sp. Seeing that the shop had already bought the CS script, they went on the car even when I told them I had the decals for the HC cars, for just a few $ more. So, even then many shops probably didn't really care. PLUS, I noticed later this car had the pass. side script (the Special) to the REAR of the Cal script. So, with all this talk on this post about script placement, this is my story. HC Bob here.