Engine Question

[PNewitt]

We'll sometime have to do a thread on engine and repair "horror stories".

Sorry about the tire-tread-on-the-body story--ouch! (sounds like a bad CSI storyline....). Maybe you could get one of those T-Shirts with the patriotic phrase: "Don't Tread on Me"??

At least we're all here to talk (and laugh) about it...

Paul N.

 

[hookedtrout]

When I went to Fremont CA this past summer my dad was giving me a lesson on the 1917 Model T Speedster that I'm some day adding to my collection. Quite the interesting cars. The first lesson left me so baffled that all I got out of the conversation was you better have a hold of the E-Brake when you climb on after crank starting it because it pops off when you step on the running board and takes off on you. Lesson 2 I took a video camera and made him start over. Holy cow what a beautiful car it is but complex to drive. Won't have to worry about anyone under about 80 stealing it due to lack of knowledge of how to even start it and the odds of anyone that old attempting it are pretty slim.

Hook

 

[case12]

OK, my engine troubles got more complex. Turns out the machine shop says my original heads have worn out valve guides that are quite expensive to repair. They have a pair of original 289 heads that they can sell me for much cheaper than repairing the original ones.

My question - were the heads number matching to the block? I like all original, but if there is no numbers matching, then another set of original heads shouldnt matter. Does anyone know? (note - my GT/CS is a driver that I like to be original - but will not be concourse). Casey

 

[Russ]

Casey, You can find the casting dates on the heads near the valve springs. Also cast into the heads are "289" or "302". Usually "302" indicates a later head than 1968. The casting dates will help you identify if they are "correct" for your car. Russ

 

[68gt390]

Casey;
Don't think they were #'s matching to the block. I would want to make sure the date code was correct for year of production. From looking at my parts identifier book I found the following info:

289 - 2V: From 8/1/67 Part#C80Z-6049-E & Casting #C80E-6090-M.

289 - 2V: With manual Trans Part#C8DZ-6049-D & Casting #C80E-6090-L.

If you wanted to use 302 heads look for the following:

302 - IMCO Emissions. Includes GT350 Part#C8AZ-6049-J & Part#C80E-6090-J.

302 - Except IMCO. Includes GT350 Part#C8AZ-6049-F & Part #C80E-6090-K.

The heads on my GT Coupe just took a dump so since my car is not concourse I'm looking at a set of aftermarket heads. Just not sure what I want yet. Besides, the flow capability on the Cast Iron GT heads wasn't the greatest in the world.

Hope this helps and doesn't make the water muddier.

Don

 

[case12]

The original heads have 289 cast into them and a "66" (not 68)cast into them (I dont have them with me right now as they are at the shop - but this is what i remember). These are the original heads.

If the heads are not supposed to be numbers matching, then I start to feel better about using a different set of 'vintage' correctly dated heads.

Don, when I am done with this project I will have the Rousch heads (some people call them DARP? DART? sp?) to get rid off. You might be interested. Casey

 

[meadowsdk28]

Case,

I'm pretty much in agreement with timing chain theory.

However, humor me,

Before you pull the front cover, make sure you pull the valve cover and check for a broken valve spring on that cylinder. Just a hunch. If you have an air hose with a compressor, go to the parts store and get a plug adaptor. This screws into the cylinder where the plug would be. Plug on your air compressor hose. The air pressure keeps the valves from dropping into the cylinder. They make a special tool that by removing a rocker arm, putting the nut back on you can remove the valve spring keepers and the valve springs to inspect. A ball joint fork will work just as easilly. Physically look at both those valve springs on #1. One may be broken and you don't always see it at first especially with the spring not under pressure. At a minimum, look at the springs while you're cranking the engine over a few times (remember, pull the coil wire unless you enjoy a face full of oil).

Timing does some strange things, but so does screwed up valvetrain. I keep going back to you talking about how smooth it is until you plug in #1. There is something to that IMHO.

Also, I'm shell-shocked. A few years ago I had a valve spring keeper sheer on me (not even going fast, just cruising down the highway) and by the time I heard the noise and reached down to turn off the key, the valve dropped into the cylinder, the piston hit the valve a few dozen times breaking the piston up into about 10 pieces leaving the rod and wrist pin to quickly beat a hole in the side of my cylinder wall, ruining a really good Mexican block. All the high nickel content and strength of a Mexican block didn't stop a rod from doing it's harm.

So, yeah, call me paranoid on valve type issues.

 

[rvrtrash]

The heads aren't numbered by serial number but they are date coded and have different combustion chamber sizes. As for the valve guides, it's common with older heads to have to put in new guides (I don't care for knurling myself). You should also put in hardened seats. If the heads the shop has hasn't had this done, I wouldn't bother getting them, just fix yours, but consider getting an estimate at another shop also. Something sounds a little odd.

Steve

 

[meadowsdk28]

Well shoot, Disregard my last post. : I guess I didn't notice the 2nd page. Case, If you can't find any other heads, I'm pretty sure I have a set of heads you can have. 2 sets if you want a set of 351 W heads. They're both cast iron. If you do, I'll check it out. You're not that far from me and we could meet at the border or something. Let me know. Hit my email.

 

[case12]

[quote author=n.id.steve link=board=1;threadid=1605;start=15#msg10526 date=1116092976]
The heads aren't numbered by serial number but they are date coded and have different combustion chamber sizes. As for the valve guides, it's common with older heads to have to put in new guides (I don't care for knurling myself). You should also put in hardened seats. If the heads the shop has hasn't had this done, I wouldn't bother getting them, just fix yours, but consider getting an estimate at another shop also. Something sounds a little odd.

What is "knurling"?

My heads to redo with hardened seat was about $400. To redo the valve guides was going to be a couple hundred more (they never said, i am just guessing). They have a set of original 289 heads already machined, new valves, the works and with hardened seats for $375. I will make sure they are date coded correctly. Otherwise, sounds like I am ok not using the originals. Casey

Steve
[/quote]

 

[Mosesatm]

Knurling is the process of making the diameter of the guide smaller by making the walls look like a cheese grater. Some material sticks out and some is recessed. It is just a temporary fix since the "teeth" get worn down fairly quickly.

 

[case12]

Here she is - Roush heads off, ready for new vintage heads next week. Casey

 

[390cs68rcode]

PLEASE cover that bad boy up!

kinda like having your fly open and not wearing underwear!

 

[68gt390]

[quote author=jbsteven link=board=1;threadid=1605;start=30#msg10558 date=1116200251]
PLEASE cover that bad boy up!

kinda like having your fly open and not wearing underwear!



[/quote]

Jason;
Now that's a good one, I'm still laughing.

Don ;D

 

[390cs68rcode]

[quote author=68gt390 link=board=1;threadid=1605;start=30#msg10559 date=1116200645]
[quote author=jbsteven link=board=1;threadid=1605;start=30#msg10558 date=1116200251]
PLEASE cover that bad boy up!

kinda like having your fly open and not wearing underwear!



[/quote]

Jason;
Now that's a good one, I'm still laughing.

Don ;D
[/quote]

seeing someones pistons seems kinda.............personal.

;D

 

[rvrtrash]

I'm such a slut!

 

[rvrtrash]

Dang, my attachment didn't go through. Let's try again.

Steve

 

[390cs68rcode]

 

[Mustanglvr]

:

 

[case12]

I would have never guessed that showing my engine would get such a response! : I almost couldnt stop laughing. I tried to show the email train to my wife, but she shook her head and walked away.

Where are the guys looking for the VIN on the block somewhere? Casey