Factory GT or Mutant GT

[somethingspecial]

Reading the HCS thread about just an appearance package, I began thinking, after 40 years, does it matter if the car was a factory GT?

What I mean by this is although the name implies GT, not all GT/CSs were true GTs. The GT performance package included: Dual Exhaust with Quad tips, a GT rear valance with cutouts for the tips, heavy duty rear leaf springs, heavy duty front coil springs, heavy duty shock absorbers, larger 7/8" or 15/16" front sway bar, pop open gas cap, and fog lights.

The only items carried from the GT package to the GT/CS package was the fog lights and pop open gas cap, which had the running horse emblem instead of the GT emblem.

If the car was not ordered from the factory with the GT package, it could be installed at the dealer, as well as any other option, ie. consoles, wheels, etc.

Over the years, if you upgraded your exhaust from single exhaust to dual, replaced the springs with more heavy duty ones, installed a larger front sway bar, and installed gas shocks, would it be considered upgraded to a GT Package? I know it wouldn't ad to the value for a true collector/purist, but then the GT/CS is in a collector class all it's own.

With the availability of the Marti Reports these days, it is easy to confirm if it is a true GT or not, but would anyone really mind if it WAS upgraded? I personally would welcome the upgrade.

Just curious about what others think. Mike

 

[PNewitt]

There were about less than 10% of GT/CSs with the GT Equipment Group.

I think, like a lot of things on these cars, having that added pedigree means more to owners. The "GT" option, carried over from the '65-67 years, has a lot of clout, whether it was many or few items.

Yes, the stripes and fogs and gas cap were already on the GT/CS, but the springs, wheels and tires, etc. Do have some value. Having that on the Marti Report which means something.

I just think it's a small badge of honor to those who have it on their GT/CS.

The funny thing about it--is that original buyers of the GT/CS, with the GT Group, had to pay the full price for the option, regardless of the duplicated items.

I'm just suprised that those with the GT option, didn't get to have the GT gas cap. That would have been neat.

Paul N.

 

[CougarCJ]

Unless you have a MCA concours trailer queen, I would definitely upgrade to the 'heavy duty' or GT suspension components during a restoration or suspension rebuild. Most all of us are using modern design tires, right? Aftermarket shocks?
Why not be shrewd about selecting suspension components?

When I rebuilt the front suspension on my 1968 XR7, I also converted to 1970factory disc brakes, from factory drums.

I also recycled the front coil springs from a loaded 1970 351 parts car, but with one coil removed. Much heavier than stock 302 front springs, slightly higher spring rate with the one coil cut.

Replaced the front sway bar with a junkyard scrounged 15/16 inch sway bar from a Granada. Easy bolt in to any small block Mustang (1967-1970). :grin:

Had dual exhausts on the car, but they were cherry bombs.:tongue:

I used stock 1969 351W exhaust manifolds and a recycled 351-4V H pipe for the beginnings of a stockish looking dual exhaust system. The 351W exhaust manifolds were selected because they closely resemble the K-code HiPo exhaust manifolds. Plus I don't care too much for headers.

I like recycling, its easier on the wallet. Plus most of these parts came from my parts stash.

*Note - Disc brake conversion had all refurbished calipers, master cylinder and brake booster. Bearings and seals replaced, hoses, etc.
Sway bar had new end links and bushings.
Suspension components were in kit form from NPD or Mustangs Plus with the substitution of the 1970 outer tie rods.

 

[franklinair]

The Marti Report and/or Buildsheet data defines the pedigree of the car, but if you DRIVE your car the added improvements ARE beneficial. Improved suspension, dual exhaust are good things. I did them to my own car, and I believe it adds quality to the end product. I also added wheel lip moldings and cruise control. (One for looks, one for convenience - and it certainly doesn't detract from the value of the car)

Neil

 

[rvrtrash]

When I restored my car I had to install new springs, valance and exhaust anyway and I had the wheels in the shop, so I went the GT route. I saved all the old parts (yes, I have leaf springs on a shelf in my shop and a valance hanging on a wall) in case a purist wants them after I die and the car is sold but saw no problem with upgrading.

Steve

 

[J.Bart]

i think mileage would be the determining factor for me, if i had a cs with 10,000 original miles i would be afraid to change anything. you don't see low mile original cars very often. but the suspension parts can be changed back to factory setup so i don't think the permanent value of the car is really affected

 

[rvrtrash]

i think mileage would be the determining factor for me, if i had a cs with 10,000 original miles i would be afraid to change anything. you don't see low mile original cars very often. but the suspension parts can be changed back to factory setup so i don't think the permanent value of the car is really affected

Well I guess I was on the edge then, because my car had been parked for 24 years and only had 51K miles, but like you said, I can always change it back---and the intake---and the carb---and the headers---and the stereo. I even saved the original seat upholstery!

Steve :grin:

 

[Doug]

My feeling is do what you want to do today -(okay within reason) - because tomorrow may not come. Changes the cars they way you want and don't worry about it.

I've met too many people that are not enjoying what they have today because they are keeping for the future. I've talked to many new 2007 Shelby owners that are saving their cars (not driving them) in hopes of future values.

 

[Midnight Special]

When I restored my car I had to install new springs, valance and exhaust anyway and I had the wheels in the shop, so I went the GT route. I saved all the old parts (yes, I have leaf springs on a shelf in my shop and a valance hanging on a wall) in case a purist wants them after I die and the car is sold but saw no problem with upgrading.

Steve

...Steve, so long as you know where to draw the line...
;-)

 

[rvrtrash]

...Steve, so long as you know where to draw the line...
;-)

I'm sure if I was ever in doubt, someone here would ride to my rescue and straighten me out. :nonono2:

Steve

 

[aemoo28]

Our '07-'09 models must be a GT to be a CS. See the string about the cloned V6 CS kit on Ebay, "here come the clones".
I'm confused. I thought the original '68 had to be a GT. The side tape says "GT/CS", right? Someone educate me please.
**SEE PAUL this is why we need to stay together, the old and the new. It's all about education!!

 

[BroadwayBlue]

Our '07-'09 models must be a GT to be a CS. See the string about the cloned V6 CS kit on Ebay, "here come the clones".
I'm confused. I thought the original '68 had to be a GT. The side tape says "GT/CS", right? Someone educate me please.
**SEE PAUL this is why we need to stay together, the old and the new. It's all about education!!

I'm sure we can find a thread or two or three discussing this one for the many of us who wondered and asked the same exact thing.

No, in 68 a GT/CS did not have to start life as a GT.

You could get the CS package on any Mustang with any engine choice, 6 cyl, 289, 302, 390, 428.

The GT part of GT/CS has nothing to do with the cars being a GT.

Also, to get a GT you had to order at least a 302 engine.

And someone correct me if I'm wrong, 390's and up were GT's automatically.

I think the last two points are true of all Mustangs though not just CS cars. I'm going off memory here and it's late so please someone jump in if I'm wrong.

You're just dying for that new book aren't you :grin:

 

[Midnight Special]

...Were the X-code 390 cars "automatic" GTs?

 

[BroadwayBlue]

...Were the X-code 390 cars "automatic" GTs?

No what I meant was that if you got the 390 I think the GT package was included. :smile:

Or maybe that wasn't your question.

 

[Mosesatm]

No what I meant was that if you got the 390 I think the GT package was included. :smile:

Or maybe that wasn't your question.

Someone recently posted a Marti with an X-code that did not seem to have the GT package.

 

[Midnight Special]

Someone recently posted a Marti with an X-code that did not seem to have the GT package.

...That's what I meant Rich, I wasn't sure if the X-code was a GT (by default) as the S and R codes are...

 

[Mosesatm]

It was Spoiler who posted a Marti of what seems to be a non-GT X-code.

http://www.californiaspecial.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=5855&d=1203141870

 

[PNewitt]

It's a mystery why anyone with a X-Code 2bbl 390 wouldn't have the GT package.

That engine was originally destined for the Cougar only, as a lower-smog big block, and I guess someone realized that the Mustangs were on the same line, so let's drop some X-code 390's in, too!

I think they had C-6 automatics for "lower smog", and probably since there wasn't a smog setup designed for a manual trans on that particular engine (i.e. IMCO vs. Thermactor) anyway.

It's as if that whole setup was an experiment that happened to hit a small production. The 2bbl 390 went on to be in other Fords in '69. As a kid, I remember we had a new '69 Ford LTD with one. It loved to climb hills and onramps to freeways. We loved that car.

The focus, productionwise, was probably for the more common 4bbl small blocks and GT-390m and 428CJ to have the GT package, too. Funny how marketing depts. make decisions like this.

Paul N.

 

[hicountrybob]

...Were the X-code 390 cars "automatic" GTs?

My '68 X code HCS is NOT a GT packaged car. Marti report showed it to have heavy duty suspension and disc brakes, tho. No mention or listing it as being a GT at all. HC Bob here.

 

[PNewitt]

It would be interesting to know from Kevin Marti, just how many X-codes (of all '68's) were also GTs.

I bet it's a low number. I'd also like to know why...there must be a reason...like some parts conflict, or not enough of something ordered to do a whole lot of GTs by then. Maybe Marketing thought a 2bbl wasn't really "GT material"? We can only speculate.

By the time they got into the X-Code (about May or June?) things in general were getting a little bit goofy...down towards the far side of the production year.

It's like when they put late production '71 ('72?) Cougar luxury interior stuff in Rancheros.

PN.