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CS/HCS Name, Why Now?

John McGilvary

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Mar 16, 2006
Messages
321
Today I saw a very nice 390 Mustang, CS clone. The owner said that he not only loved the CS look, but it made his 390 GT worth more if he ever sold it.

My question is;

-After 39 years why so many CS/HCS clones?

Most clones are done in very good detail and look real cool, and some only use the CS/HCS name and are of very bad quality. Why not Shelby, Boss, ect? Why so many lately?

Comments please.
John
 

Mosesatm

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Jan 18, 2005
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9,181
IMO it's because the GT/CS HCS package was external parts so the parts can be added to any Mustang. The Boss, Shelby, Mach 1, etc are performance based.
 

rvrtrash

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Apr 25, 2003
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3,667
There are a ton of Shelby, Boss and Mach 1 clones. We (well most everyone here anyway) just notice the CS clones more because we're closer to them than the others. As an owner of a Mach 1, a Boss and a Tiger, I notice clones of them all the time and I'm sure if you did a search, you'd find the Shelby's also. People are starting to realize the CS exists so everyone with a coupe that didn't know what to do with it now have a "vision".

Steve
 

CougarCJ

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Joined
Jul 17, 2006
Messages
2,217
Yeah, imitation is the sincerest form of flattery.:icon_lol:

As is mentioned above, everything is cloned.

Most folks think that every Mustang fastback after 1969 was a Mach 1.:tongue:

Another reason is that some Mustang owners have "Specials" envy. They have to make their Mustang a little different from the rest of the herd to feel special in their class, either that, or they are just bored with their cars.

Cloning a coupe into a Shelby looks kind of strange.

On a 1967/68 Coupe, the choices are the GT package, GT/CS, and to a lesser extent the HCS's.
Most of the parts are in the Mustang parts wish books. :wink: A credit card number and the next thing you know, Brown is at your door with several boxes.

Economically, a restoration costs the same on a CS as it does on a generic coupe. Basically the only additional costs are the repop CS parts. Personally I would buy the repop GT fog light wiring kit and substitute a pair of Marchals from a Mk VII LSC.
 

Midnight Special

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...There are indeed more & more Boss clones (made from Mach Is) and Shelbys galore. There are also a large number of 67 - 68 coupes that people want to distinguish from the norm ie; CS cloning...

What I don't understand are the GT/CS "convertible" mods... For all that effort, why not clone Shelby convertibles instead?
;-)
 

Perkchiro

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May 1, 2004
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Location
Nixa, MO
It's already been said, but I really think it has to do with the abundance of coupes and the availability of aftermarket parts. It's cheaper to buy a plain 68 coupe and then make it look cool with CS or HCS parts. I think you'll be seeing more and more of this in the future. Just gotta make sure you have the right VIN numbers and Marti to be sure you gotta real one.
 
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J

John McGilvary

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Mar 16, 2006
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321
...There are indeed more & more Boss clones (made from Mach Is) and Shelbys galore. There are also a large number of 67 - 68 coupes that people want to distinguish from the norm ie; CS cloning...

What I don't understand are the GT/CS "convertible" mods... For all that effort, why not clone Shelby convertibles instead?
;-)

Your right Tim. I guess because my CS is the only Mustang I have ever owned, I notice a CS clone first. I agree, why not clone Shelby convertibles instead?

IMO, Mustangs are cool, and if your going to clone them, do it up right!

John
 

Mustanger

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If you're gonna clone something, then clone it right ...

Your right Tim. I guess because my CS is the only Mustang I have ever owned, I notice a CS clone first. I agree, why not clone Shelby convertibles instead?

IMO, Mustangs are cool, and if your going to clone them, do it up right!

John

Tim, John,

I agree with your sentiments, people should do it right.

However, perhaps to a guy on a budget, a Shelby conv clone will cost more than a GT/CS conv clone ... eg, the Shelby hood and front end treatment ... not to mention that the "average" car guy may know that a real Shelby will also have a special tag under the hood, which is something that our CS's don't have ... at least not until Paul releases his new book with all the goodies including the "special" tag! ...
 

Midnight Special

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Grass Valley, California
Tim, John,

I agree with your sentiments, people should do it right.

However, perhaps to a guy on a budget, a Shelby conv clone will cost more than a GT/CS conv clone ... eg, the Shelby hood and front end treatment ... not to mention that the "average" car guy may know that a real Shelby will also have a special tag under the hood, which is something that our CS's don't have ... at least not until Paul releases his new book with all the goodies including the "special" tag! ...

No doubt with so many clones showing up that we'll be more often asked; "is it real?". My solution will be a laminated color copy of my deluxe "Marti" kept in the car. I've seen some very convincing Shelby clones that seemed to have everything and one GT/CS that is 100% except for the "Dearborn" VIN!
That guy maintains it's real! Mike & I know better, but others don't... He has everything but the Marti...
 
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John McGilvary

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A clone is a clone no matter how well it's cloned! I can respect a guy who makes the real effort and $$ into producing a good looking high quality clone, as long as he tells people it is a clone. IMO, someone who trys to tell me a clone is a real CS, no matter how cool it looks, its just a fake to me.

John
 
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PNewitt

Guest
It's difficult to get a real headcount of clones out there, whether GT/CS. Shelby, Boss, or Mach 1. But, there is a good perception that it's happening more often.

It's so bad with the Shelbys, that Shelby, Inc., has really cracked down on you getting Shelby emblems. You have to prove that you actually own one to buy those emblems (which I doubt would really hinder cloning). The clone demand is why Unique is making those "continuation Shelbys". There is talk of them doing a coupe, too, but I haven't seen it yet.

Unfortunately, there are a lot of people out there that think nothing is wrong with making up a GT/CS. They think of those parts added is like adding A/C. They don't know that it ruins the marque, and that it's a REAL, separate type of Mustang; not just an optioned-out coupe. Between our efforts, the Registry, the upcoming book, and this site, we'll have an influence.

The lack of Shelby convertibles is simply the great expense of adding the roll bar. It's rare, and you have to find the Shelby type interior quarter panels, which are unique, and kind of box shaped. Branda once sold the roll bar, which was the same for '68-'70. But you'd be hard pressed to find one today.

I think what galls me the most are people's disrespect when they make a clone. Being an enthusiast is one thing, but passing it off as "real" is another. If you're going to modify your stock coupe, make either a Little Red, or Green Hornet, or just add the spoiler and end caps, and leave it at that. It's a vintage-modified Mustang. But to go farther and "fake it"as a CS, I feel is just wrong.

I recently had a friend in the registry just find out that their GT/CS that they'd had for years is really a modified '67 coupe. It's sad, because it's like the car had suddenly lost it's soul.

Paul N.

p.s. saw my first '07 Shelby on the road today.
 

somethingspecial

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Aug 13, 2005
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1,795
I may seem like a purist at times, and I am very proud of my two "Real GT/CS Mustangs", but I see NO evil in a "Clone" or "Tribute" car as they seem to be called now. With todays market on some cars, and the rarity of the "Special Interest" cars, some people have no choice but to clone a car that may be out of their reach $$$$. I have seen some real beautiful clones, Tim has one of them. He does not try to pass it as an original. If you are going to buy a GT/CS or HCS, or even a Boss, ETC., insist on a Marti Report. If the seller does not want to provide it, you can walk away, or order one yourself. In any event, you would be money ahead. you can find almost anything for a GT/CS on Ebay these days, may it be orig. or repop. The parts are out there, you just have to find them.
I considered making a clone out of my newly aquired 68' coupe, but decided against it.
Would you be ashamed to drive down the road in a clone? Most people don't really care if it is real or a clone, or would not know the difference. A lot of people have never seen a GT/CS, They just know they like it and give a THUMBS UP!!! I had a guy pull up to me the other day on a motorcycle at a stop light, he looked inside the car, and said, "OK, I'm convinced, Nice Car".

How many people own a AC Cobra kit car? Does anyone care it is a "CLONE"?

Drive your car, and enjoy it. It is unfortunate that people like Paul's friends someday find out the car they thought was a genuine article may be a clone, but how many art collectors have found through the years their "Masterpiece" was a forgery? Do your research, and help others you know find the facts before you or them make that purchase.
Well, I'll get off my soap box. Mike
 
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PNewitt

Guest
Hey Mike,

This subject is difficult to really make a judgement on, since there are folks that are of a purist persuasion, and others that see it like a "vintage restomod".

I think that once the book comes out, it will define what a REAL GT/CS is all about, that will give it a lot more respect and appreciation to the authentic GT/CS Mustangs.

You and Tim are as close to "the middle of the GT/CS Universe" as anyone can get, so you know exactly what makes the car what it is, appreciate it, etc. So, to own or make a clone in the context of what you know, do and appreciate, it's not of concern to the purist's perception.

What concerns me are those who make these cars up to sell on EBAY, or are so far East, that no one would be the wiser (w/o a Marti report). I want to strengthen the marque first, then identify what cars are what. There will be clones no matter what, but it's the awareness and appreciation that I think is most important. Besides, there were a lot of modified Mustangs with all kinds of "stuff" on them, back in '67 and '68. But-people have forgotten those cars as they were. An all-black coupe with the fiberglass, no stripes or emblems, and Am. Racing Torque Thrust wheels was cool back then. Where are those cars today?

It's best thought of as a matter of perception right now, not reality.

Paul N.
 

Midnight Special

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...As I've said before, I got a clone to drive, modify and play with as I like to retain the GT/CS features, but not molest one of the originals. Aside from that and with show season upon us, I will gladly use it to show people how to tell clones from real ie; '67 fender emblems, absent hood locks, signage (states "replica"), aftermarket wheels, engine decor & on & on. Personally; I would rather anyone who loves the GT/CS "restomod" out a clone vs real. But DON'T Misrepresent it as real! Cobras and Shelbys too as we all seek to manifest that perfect "dream car". I know this doesn't set well w/ all of you, but I do pay my dues in preserving the others as proper (and functional) as practical. I drive and enjoy my cars for the same reasons as people who bought them back in '68, so I won't always buy the correct battery, alternator, plug wires etc... in their maintenance. It would be a waste of good NOS and cause me to make them into "hangar queens" as opposed to letting others drive & enjoy them.

Now if I go to sell one; that will be a different story, but expect my full disclosure when that time comes.
:))
 

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rvrtrash

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Apr 25, 2003
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I personally don't have a problem with clones. How many times have people here asked if they should do this or that to their car and we've told them, "Hey it's your car-do what you want". I wouldn't mind owning a Shelby clone because it's the look I like, not the value. I've gone back and forth on making my 69 Fairlane convertible a "Talledega clone" (even though they were all fastbacks) and have considered cloning a Tiger that I can build up insanely fast (hear that Joe?) without butchering my real one. I do have a problem though with dishonesty. Call it what it is and take pride in what you've built. What's wrong with "I took a rusted out coupe headed for the bone yard, saved it and did this, this and this too it. Isn't it cool?" OK, my soapbox is made of cardboard and just collapsed from the weight so I'm done.

Steve
 

Mustanglvr

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Dec 4, 2004
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Clones are the greatest form of flattery when it comes to a collectible car. There will always be crooks out there that will try to benefit somehow. There are low-lifes in every business imaginable.
But there are a few honest people out there that think they have an authentic rare car and will try to sell it as such. Not realizing they themselves purchased a clone. Paul`s registry and the Kevin Marti report are very important.
 

joedls

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Mar 12, 2005
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Lake Forest, CA
I personally don't have a problem with clones. How many times have people here asked if they should do this or that to their car and we've told them, "Hey it's your car-do what you want". I wouldn't mind owning a Shelby clone because it's the look I like, not the value. I've gone back and forth on making my 69 Fairlane convertible a "Talledega clone" (even though they were all fastbacks) and have considered cloning a Tiger that I can build up insanely fast (hear that Joe?) without butchering my real one. I do have a problem though with dishonesty. Call it what it is and take pride in what you've built. What's wrong with "I took a rusted out coupe headed for the bone yard, saved it and did this, this and this too it. Isn't it cool?" OK, my soapbox is made of cardboard and just collapsed from the weight so I'm done.

Steve

I've gotta say I agree with Dad. And also, I'd love to drive that insanely fast Tiger clone. :grin:
 

case12

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Oct 8, 2004
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Location
Crystal Lake, IL
Simple for me:

1. If you want the real thing, then get a Marti Report BEFORE buying - remember there are only 3,867 GT/CS (for 1968)
2. If not real GT/CS, and you still want it, then enjoy it to the max
3. Check out the californiaspecial.com site. They are the real experts.

Casey
 
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