joedls and rvrtrash ... are these your cars?

[BroadwayBlue]

Was checking out the Mustangs Unlimited site tonight and did a search on "California Special" to see what would come up.

I was looking at the stripes and the pictures of the cars they're using look very familiar. Some other cars look familiar as well.

Did you guys give permission for this?

joedls
http://mustangsunlimited.com/itemdy00.asp?T1=VO3007B+01
rvrtrash
http://mustangsunlimited.com/itemdy00.asp?T1=VO3007R+01

The blue with white and the green with gold look familiar as well.

 

[joedls]

That's definitely my car. Don't know how they got the pic.

 

[390cs68rcode]

I would be VERY upset if a vendor used my picture without permission.

 

[rvrtrash]

The one with red stripes is mine as well and no, they didn't ask permission. The had to lift the pics from this site because it's the only place I have it. I guess I'll be emailing them and asking for an explanation.
Steve

 

[rvrtrash]

I called them instead. They said they'd remove the picture but no apology or explaination. The thing is, if they would've asked first, I might have let them use it, even though I bought the stripe kit from someone else. I had problems in the past when I ordered stuff from them and now I know I'll never use them. I don't like the way they do business.

Steve

 

[Diesel Donna]

Whoa...good eye Rich!

 

[Mosesatm]

Maybe Casey can explain how the law works on this but I think that the internet is considered public domain and once you post a picture it's free for the taking, and for the using.

BUT, even though they may not have legally needed your permission they certainly ethically needed it, and since they got the pictures from this site it would have been very easy for them to contact the two of you.

 

[admin]

Maybe Casey can explain how the law works on this but I think that the internet is considered public domain and once you post a picture it's free for the taking, and for the using.

I'm no attorney, but... your photo isn't public domain unless you specify that you give up all rights to it. Posting a photo on the internet doesn't mean it's free for anyone to use. It's easier obviously, but copyright laws still apply. Your image is protected by copyright even if you don't register it and even if it doesn't have a copyright symbol next to it (although both are pretty essential if you actually want to pursue legal recourse against the infringer)

Now Casey can post and correct everything I said.:grin:

Obviously Mustangs Unlimited should have just asked first, but at least they did take Steve's photo down promptly when requested.

 

[joedls]

Actually, I'm not bothered by the fact that they used the pic. I think I will contact them and ask them if they will give credit to this site, though.

 

[rvrtrash]

BUT, even though they may not have legally needed your permission they certainly ethically needed it, and since they got the pictures from this site it would have been very easy for them to contact the two of you.

I agree. In fact I probably would've bragged about being chosen if they would've taken 5 minutes to ask first. Instead, I just threw their catalog in the recycle bin.
Steve

 

[BroadwayBlue]

I agree. In fact I probably would've bragged about being chosen if they would've taken 5 minutes to ask first. Instead, I just threw their catalog in the recycle bin.
Steve

At least you recycled it Steve!

 

[case12]

This is not legal advice:

Generally, anything that can be viewed by the public may be used without permission. We once had a picture of a house on a brochure. The person saw their house and said, "Hey, you can't use a picture of my house without my permission". The ruling was that the house could be seen from the street and was intended to be available to the public (the front of a house is public),and was therefore public, and not private, material. That covers things like car shows, public sites, etc.

For printed material (and I presume the web), then a copyright notice is required to protect the material. This is why you see some pictures on eBay with a copyright mark on them. Otherwise, it is considered public material (to be viewed by the public).

I agree that it would have been nice to attempt contact before using someone's picture found in the public domain (just seems like the right thing to do), but sometimes this is not practical as the person may not have an email or may not be known. Never-the-less, it is best to try.

Another way to look at it - you can feel proud that your car is chosen and can refer to the use of it in a major Mustang catalogue site at shows, etc.

Casey

 

[joedls]

I just spoke to the Marketing Director at Mustangs Unlimited. He couldn't figure out a way to credit this site for the pic, but has agreed to put a link to this website on their Links page.

 

[PNewitt]

This is proof positive that we are a tight-knit group.

I just sent this e-mail to the folks at Mustangs Unlimited.
So...We'll see what they have to say.

" Dear Folks at Mustangs Unlimited:

This is Paul M. Newitt, the Registrar for the 1968 GT/CS California Special Mustang.

It has come to my attention, via the message boards at www.californiaspecial.com, that two photos of members' GT/CS Mustangs have appeared on your website, used to describe GT/CS stripe kits. A member has mentioned that these same photos (originally) appear in the www.californiaspecial member's gallery pages.

It appears that your website has used these same photos on your website, without prior permission, nor do they credit the owner (or photographer). If this is true, then I suggest that you remove the photos of these owner's GT/CS Mustangs ASAP.

This is not so much an issue of copyright (although you claim ownership of your photos on your site in your disclaimer); but, this IS an issue of ethics. Since our "eagle-eyed" member of the CS message boards discovered this, I can't understand why your business (webmaster??) chose to think they could use these photos without prior permission. I'm sure that many owners would have been happy to provide photos, if they had been asked beforehend. These owner car photos in the gallery are for visitors to the site to see what other GT/CS Mustangs look like--not for commercial use. This would have been good public relations for you, and perhaps some sales from other CS owners, if you'd asked either me at the GT/CS Registry, or the webmaster of www.californiaspecial.com beforehand.

I have seen this happen quite frequently in the business, since, I also did a catalog some years ago for Sacramento Mustang (and we contacted everyone first). At this point, I don't know if a lot of CS owners would patronize your business. I would appreciate a response that I can post on the message boards, explaining your side of this situation, and your comments on how this happened.

Thank you for your time,

Paul M. Newitt"

 

[hookedtrout]

I just spoke to the Marketing Director at Mustangs Unlimited. He couldn't figure out a way to credit this site for the pic, but has agreed to put a link to this website on their Links page.

Cool Deal!!

Not that any one feeling is right or wrong as everything affects each of us differently but I'd fit in the flattered catagory if they used mine, wouldn't bother me a bit regardless if they asked or not. Once I placed it out here on the web it was with the intention of having people see it, if they want to download it and use it as their wallpaper or stuff it in some advertisement cool with me. It's like the clocks you see being sold on ebay with pictures of peoples cars. I'm sure they get them off the net as well and maybe some day we'll walk into some house and there will be a clock on the wall with a picture of your car on it, that would be cool to me...

Cory

 

[PNewitt]

Well, Cory, I don't disagree with you, but if someone has restored and cared for their GT/CS (or any other classic or street rod), you deserve some sort of aknowledgement, and/or respect.

In a commercial situation like this, they benefit from your hard work. You waxed the car, picked out the wheels, and spend a lot of time with TLC. If a catalog, or website, or even book uses photos of your car, the right thing to do (ethical thing ) is give that person credit. A little bit goes a long way.

Paul N.

 

[Mosesatm]

It appears that your website has used these same photos on your website, without prior permission, nor do they credit the owner (or photographer). If this is true, then I suggest that you remove the photos of these owner's GT/CS Mustangs ASAP.

Paul, your defense of Joe and Steve is honorable but I think that in a previous post Joe said he has no problem with the picture of his car being used.

 

[PNewitt]

I don't have a problem with anyone "not concerned" about whether their photo is used or not. That's their choice.

The main point here is that a professional business (or a publication, for that matter) should extend the professional courtesy of crediting the source.

If an individual "doesn't have a problem with that", it doesn't lessen the overall responsibility.

The advent of the internet has "promoted" the (apparent) ease and speed of doing things without the consideration of others. All I'm saying is that those that wish to use photos, diagrams, etc., think first, and then do the right thing.

That's all.

Paul.

 

[Mosesatm]

I don't have a problem with anyone "not concerned" about whether their photo is used or not. That's their choice.


Paul.

That's my point exactly. For you to tell a vendor to remove certain pictures from it's website without first talking to the owners of the cars, or having their power-of-attorney, may have been a little presumptuous and may have cost one or both of them an opportunity to have his car prominently displayed on a major web-site.

For all I know you may have spoken to the car owners and they may have told you to go for it. If that is the case then your letter to MU is commendable but if you didn't consult them first it could be construed as meddling.

 

[PNewitt]

That's pretty nitpicky, and not really worth splitting hairs on.

Whether specific folks say "OK", or not is a moot point. This has to do with ethics in a general sense. I've had my work copied in the past, and research for an article (recently) used without my permission, too....so, you can't send a mixed message to anyone with a commercial endeavor and say: "oh, well, yeah for this guy, but not for this one"...

Hey, Arlie, recently is seems that you seem to be challenging my posts here and there. I feel a ripple in this "good natured" conversation on the boards. I don't like to push back, since it sours the upbeat nature of these conversations. What's the deal?

Paul N.